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Both new iPhones offer 8MP cameras — is Apple still innovative enough to entice photographers?

518
The new iPhone 5S from Apple has an 8-megapixel camera with a slightly larger sensor.

Apple revealed not one, but two iPhones today at its media event in Cupertino, California. The latest devices are aimed at two very different markets. The colorful iPhone 5C is poised to compete against cheaper smartphones while the iPhone 5S debuts Apple’s newest innovations in mobile technology, including a revamped iSight camera. However, both models are touting a fairly underwhelming spec of 8 megapixels of imaging power  — will it be enough to lure in mobile shutterbugs who may be tempted by the massively megapixel-powered 41MP Nokia Lumia 1020 or 20.7MP Sony Xperia Z1

Software features first: iOS 7

After a brief introduction by Apple CEO Tim Cook, the event started with Craig Federighi, Apple's senior vice president of software engineering, giving quick review of iOS 7's many new features. Among them are live filters and square format capture. iOS 7 is also bringing a brand new take on iOS's photo management, Camera Roll. Instead of simply organizing photos by time captured, the new Camera Roll will automatically group photos based on the time and location they were taken. 

iOS 7 will be available for free on September 18th for iPhone 4 and later, iPad 2 and later, and the fifth generation iPod Touch.

In more software news, iPhoto and iMovie for iOS are soon going to be available for free. The apps previously cost $4.99 each, but will now be included with the purchase of every new iOS device. 

The iPhone 5C

The iPhone 5C is more colorful and less expensive.

The iPhone 5C is, as Apple's Senior Vice President of Design Jony Ive described, "beautifully, unapologetically plastic," and comes in green, white, blue, red and yellow hard-coated polycarbonate with a 4-inch Retina display.

In terms of imaging, the camera on the iPhone 5C looks very similar to that on the iPhone 5. It has an 8MP sensor and f/2.4 aperture lens – just like the iPhone 5 and iPhone 4S.

The iPhone 5C has a larger battery than the iPhone 5 and is powered by an A6 chip for what Apple is calling "blazing-fast" performance. A 16GB iPhone 5C will run you $99 with a two-year contract while a 32GB version cost $199.

iPhone 5S

The iPhone 5S comes in a decadent gold color.

Aside from coming in silver, gold and "space grey," the iPhone 5S doesn’t look all that different from its iPhone 5 predecessor, but inside, this device is an entirely different machine. According to Apple, the new A7 processor in the iPhone 5S is two times as fast as its predecessor with CPU and graphics tasks, making the newest iPhone's CPU performance 40x faster than the first iPhone and 56x faster on graphics.

In addition to the A7 processor, Apple has introduced an entirely new part, the M7 "coprocessor," to take advantage of all of the sensors continuously measuring data from the accelerometer, gyroscope and compass. 

Despite the newer, faster hardware, Apple claims iPhone 5S's battery is "the same or better" than the iPhone 5 with 10 hours of 3G talk time, and 250 hours at standby. 

According to Apple, a new, faster processor, means better photos. In iOS 7, the iPhone 5S camera will perform automatic white balance and exposure to create a dynamic local tone map around the image for better highlights and shadows, using an autofocus metering matrix for sharper photos. After taking a series of photos and analyzing them in real time, it will show you the sharpest image.

The new processor also allowed Apple to introduce auto (but still digital, not optical) image stabilization. The new feature can take long exposures by combining multiple images (something that exposure control app makers have been doing for quite some time.) The iPhone 5S also has a burst mode that will take up to 10 photos a second as long as you are holding down the shutter button.

Although still coming in at 8 megapixels, Apple says the iPhone 5S offers a revamped iSight camera that will deliver a total of 33 percent better light sensitivity thanks to a larger sensor size, bigger pixels and wider five element ƒ/2.2 lens. Apple reports the new sensor has a 15 percent larger active area with pixels now measuring 1.5 microns in size. Larger pixels mean each individual pixel collects more light, so the pixel-level image quality should also be improved. This, combined with the 1/3EV brighter lens, should make for better low light photos.

The iPhone 5S features one white and one amber LED light for more true-to-life colors when using flash.

If the new sensor and lens still can't capture your dark scene, the new camera comes coupled with an extra, warmer LED flash which Apple is calling "True Tone Flash." The new flash has over 1,000 unique variations that will automatically change based on your lighting situation.

Interestingly enough, Apple made no mention of megapixels when describing the iPhone 5S camera during the event. Our best guess is that since the iPhone 5S does not have sensor-shocking specs like the Lumia 1020 or Xperia Z1, Apple wants to keep people focused on its other hardware advancements. 

See Apple's first image samples from the phone here.

Spec comparison

iPhone 5C iPhone 5S  iPhone 5
Sensor   8MP CMOS  8MP CMOS (with 1.5µ pixels)  8MP CMOS
Lens length (equivalent)   unknown  unknown  33mm
Aperture   f/2.4  f/2.2  f/2.4
 ISO  unknown unknown   50-1000 (up to 3200 by pixel-binning)
Display   4-inch, 326ppi LCD   4-inch, 326ppi LCD  4-inch, 326ppi LCD
Video   1080p  1080p  1080p
 Flash  Single LED  Dual LED "True tone flash"  Single LED
 Face Detection?  Yes  Yes  Yes
 Stills during video?  Yes  Yes  Yes
 Sapphire lens cover?  Yes  Yes   Yes 
 Burst Mode?  No   Yes  No

Availability

Apple is staggering the release of its new phones. The iPhone 5C will be available for pre-order online starting this Friday, September 13th, while the iPhone 5S will be released the following week on the 20th, but only in retail stores at this point. Contract-free, the iPhone 5S will cost $649 for 16GB, $749 for 32GB or $849 for 64GB (with contract: 16GB for $199, 32GB for $299 or 64GB for $399). The iPhone 5C is slightly more affordable at $549 out-of-contract for the 16GB version or $649 for 32GB.

When the iPhone 5 was released last year, Apple was the leader in smartphone photography, but with all of the technological advancements in mobile digital imaging this year, the field has changed dramatically. We look forward to getting the newest flagship device from Apple into our studio to see how it stacks up to today's serious smartphone competition.

Comments

Total comments: 518
123
Neodp
By Neodp (11 months ago)

Not even the best pocket camera. Not that any pocket camera is worth its price, today.

I agree, 8Mpx is more than enough, for such a tiny sensor; with today's chip sensitivities.

At this rate, in 2113, perhaps 20Mpx will be clean to ISO 6400, in this size sensor! LOL. As it is, it's just a web shot pretender. All these devices will be laughed at, in the future. They're disposables, and yet, priced like Gold. Why do we tolerate them?

Not to mention Apple is to be avoided. To much handcuffed. No freedom. Be careful what you wish for; because with Apple, you get less, for more. Only to find, it isn't the answer to technical issues. It's not even the least of evils.

As far as accurate color sensitivity, highlight, and shadow detail, (which if you think about it, that's what a camera does; gather light), then we have a very long way to go.

Where is the photographic innovation?

A Good camera:

Useability (controls)
Price
IQ (Lenses then sensor)
Speeds
Size
[BALANCED]

Comment edited 4 times, last edit 7 minutes after posting
1 upvote
jvideographer
By jvideographer (11 months ago)

Yes, I agree, every device we now use will be laughed at in the future, by some. That's why I advocate not buying or using any device until at least the year 2075 when all will be perfect!

7 upvotes
HowaboutRAW
By HowaboutRAW (11 months ago)

Neo--

The pocketable Panasonic LF1 is plenty good, though since it's new doesn't meet your price requirement.

However the Olympus XZ10 is a lot less expensive, this week at least, has a better lens than the LF1 and like the LF1 shoots raw.

0 upvotes
udris
By udris (11 months ago)

All a bit lackluster but then again it is a quiet period in consumer technological advancement after the furor of the last decade or so

0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

"All a bit lackluster but then again it is a quiet period in consumer technological advancement after the furor of the last decade or so"

I definitely wouldn't say so. In the last 12 months, some flagship phones have received OIS, 1080p60, full manual control, stereo audio recording etc.

It's just Apple that doesn't seem to want to innovate, I'm afraid.

2 upvotes
udris
By udris (11 months ago)

Still small bickies .........phones are only a small part of the big picture of technology. Stuff like what is on the phones existed on cameras and video cams long ago nothing really new ......... a smaller package dumbed down IQ wise

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

"Stuff like what is on the phones existed on cameras and video cams long ago nothing really new "

1. So that's what you've meant... well, what I mean is it was in 2012-2013 that manufacturers started to incorporate REALLY important functionality like OIS into smartphone cameras. That is, while OIS is decades "old", it's certainly quite new when it comes to smartphones.

2. I certainly wouldn't write down smartphones. Again, the best camera is the one you have with you.

Comment edited 45 seconds after posting
1 upvote
udris
By udris (11 months ago)

product wise same old same old lots of hype little substance this is what happens with a closed system eventually it leaves it no room for innovation

0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

"product wise same old same old lots of hype little substance this is what happens with a closed system eventually it leaves it no room for innovation"

Closed doesn't necessarily mean lack of innovation. Windows Phone is also as closed as iOS (or even more) but, with the top cameraphone models, has almost all features I require and have listed here several times.

All in all, being locked down doesn't necessarily mean lack of features. It's not with the 1020.

1 upvote
udris
By udris (11 months ago)

It sure does just as copyright does it reduces the amount of participants, excludes many and plays the game of control freaks remember Steve was champion of control. Even with his departure apple is moving like a slug eventually there will be a change but that is not evident now

0 upvotes
xebomat
By xebomat (11 months ago)

They copied The 5c colors from Nokia Lumia, isn't it so?

5 upvotes
AndyHWC
By AndyHWC (11 months ago)

yes, looks like Steve took all the innovation with him. Lumia color scheme, Androidish menu. Funny Google copied iphone interface initially, now it is a victim of counterfeit.

If Steve Jobs still has has eye open, he would jump out and give Tim a ear full.

3 upvotes
Skeptical Steve
By Skeptical Steve (11 months ago)

No, Nokia copied the colours from the iMac and the iPod. As you would know if you had paying attention in the early 21st century, rather than playing with your Lego Duplo.

1 upvote
AndyHWC
By AndyHWC (11 months ago)

@ Skeptical Steve, I guess you missed the Nokia phones with changable color faceplates from the 20th century. Then we saw the colorful fat iMac and the emachine iMac wannabe.

1 upvote
D1N0
By D1N0 (11 months ago)

Great and now for an iPhone that shoots bullets. What the hell do you need a gun for.

1 upvote
kriztian
By kriztian (11 months ago)

Real photographers are praising the Lumia 1020. Apple doesn´t even come close. Thats a fact. Cheers :)

6 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (11 months ago)

Unless you have a link to actual tests, it would be nice to see a comparison proving that the 5s is not as good as the Nokia 1020

3 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

Yup, the 5s may(!!) be comparable IQ-wise, particularly if you use the in-camera, lousy downsampler of the 1020.

However, in other features (OIS, stereo, wide FoV, manual modes) the 1020 is much better.

2 upvotes
jcmarfilph
By jcmarfilph (11 months ago)

Only in iPhonographer's dream will make their toy come close to Nokia's offerings.

3 upvotes
Tee1up
By Tee1up (11 months ago)

I got stung with a Windows Smart-phone once. Never again.

1 upvote
G1Houston
By G1Houston (11 months ago)

"Real" photographers don't use "real" camera?

2 upvotes
Calvin Chann
By Calvin Chann (11 months ago)

IMO, 8MP is more than enough for such a device, where storage capacity (music, data, photos, videos...) may become an issue for the ardent user.

Also, given upload speeds, I'm not convinced that more MP is better.

And in the end, what are these photos going to be used for?

9 upvotes
David Cheok Photography
By David Cheok Photography (11 months ago)

Some people just like trolling..
Others just dont get its a phone.. not a DSLR. Maybe they are expecting a $500 phone to outperform a $2k full frame DSLR..

4 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (11 months ago)

$500 are too much for last years technology in a new plastic wrap,

3 upvotes
yehat
By yehat (11 months ago)

This article and the "discussion" thread finally convinced me to forget about this site and the illusion of photographic community. Everything's for money today and the hate, dumbness and out-of-the-scale-selfesteem are the fruits.
Happy to unboard you.

3 upvotes
JWest
By JWest (11 months ago)

Did I really just witness a serious photography site open an article by criticising a device's megapixel count?

12 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (11 months ago)

Yes, as more MP are better. That's not a myth. See Nokia 1020 41 MP camera. You can always downsample it later to 5 or 8 MP in post and get better image quality than if the sensor was 8 MP to start with.

6 upvotes
tompabes2
By tompabes2 (11 months ago)

Let's say that there is always a point where noise cancels the advantage of having more megapixel. But this point is not 8mp today, at least with the best sensors. So, if the Z1 seems to have really pushed the number of pixels too far and produces very noisy images, and the Nokia 1020 delivers good images only when the 41mp are reduced to only 5mp via pixel binning, the LG G2 and GS4 deliver sharp and clean images with 13mp, which have already surpassed the 8mp output of the iphone 5, because the extra pixels actually deliver more detail and resolution.
So an 8mp sensor today is just not the best you can do. A good 13mp sensor can actually deliver more detail, even considering the higher noise.
Just look at DXOMark's tests! A photography site is serious if its judgements are not based on dogmas (like more mp = less quality) but on serious tests, to determine *when* more mp = less quality (i.e. how many pixels for each sensor size) and year after year as sensor technology improves .

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
M Jesper
By M Jesper (11 months ago)

Turns out that more data to work with and the necessary processing power to do so can indeed be beneficial.

1 upvote
rare wolf
By rare wolf (11 months ago)

The pixel count should not necessarily mean anything these days, it all about implementation of the technology. Personally, I do not need to deal with the memory and speed requirements of writing 41Mp image files just to re-process them later. 8Mp is enough for a smartphone, and if I see more detail in the shadows, as well as better DR, then we're all the better for it. I'll be curious in DXO marks ...

2 upvotes
groucher
By groucher (11 months ago)

Nice colours. Wonder if Apple will patent them?

11 upvotes
Frank
By Frank (11 months ago)

A cool decision from apple to not follow the Megapixel Hype.
Bigger sensor, same pixel Count = better IQ.
Who don't manages to make good pictures with 8 Megapixel will not do with 36 or 80.
8 Megapixel are enough to print a real good 30x45cm (11x17") print. But only if you have a good IQ.
Apple did understand what that means. Or why do you think a Nikon D4 has the underwhelming spec of only 16 MP compared with a Nokia with 41... Or a Canon 1Dx only 18!

Since Dpreview was bought by Amazon... such headlines as underwhelming specs are more and more common...

Good headline would have been - Apple focuses on Image Quality instead of useless higher pixel count. There are lot of things to comment critically on the new iphone but not the camera...

15 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

"Apple focuses on Image Quality instead of useless higher pixel count."

That's only half of the story. The new camera's IQ seems to be great (for a smartphone). It's the missing, essential, in other flagships already-existing features (OIS, stereo, wider videos etc.) that are infuriating.

1 upvote
tompabes2
By tompabes2 (11 months ago)

The problem is that the GS4 and LG G2 deliver better results with 13mp (look at the DXOMark test of the GS4), the truth is that there is an optimal value for each sensor size and year after year as sensor technology improves. So, if the 20mp of the sony Z1 are probably too many, tests have shown that the 13mp of the GS4 and G2 are the best compromise and actually deliver more detail.

4 upvotes
hiro_pro
By hiro_pro (11 months ago)

i feel like DXO is not relevant to smart phones. i see too many pictures online where the phone missed focus or because of low light there was too much camera shake. not to mention blown highlights or other issues. setting a cell phone on a tripod and taking 20 shots at a target just doesn't seem relevant.

1 upvote
tompabes2
By tompabes2 (11 months ago)

DXO tests measure the quality of optics and sensor... of course there are many other things that contribute to image quality, but learning when you should keep your hands steady (or when there's really not enough light to take a picture without a tripod), learing to focus properly and learning which settings you have to use according to the lighting conditions are different problems! :)

0 upvotes
Skeptical Steve
By Skeptical Steve (11 months ago)

Perhaps we should wait until DXOMark has actually tested the 5s before we go jumping to conclusions. Wouldn't that be the sensible thing to do?

Comment edited 51 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
wakaba
By wakaba (11 months ago)

That sums it up:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/apple-unveils-panicked-ideafree-man-at-launch-even,33814/?ref=auto

4 upvotes
vetsmelter
By vetsmelter (11 months ago)

"When the iPhone 5 was released last year, Apple was the leader in smartphone photography"

You must mean "leader" by sheer number of users?

Some better informed journalists may argue that the iPhone 5 never beat the photographic quality obtained by the 2010 Nokia N8.

A clear insight on how history is written (sigh)

Comment edited 17 seconds after posting
10 upvotes
CeleryBeats
By CeleryBeats (11 months ago)

As usual. You can have nice looking thumbnails from the iphone.

4 upvotes
Mister J
By Mister J (11 months ago)

My iP4S earns its keep in the art-print market, so I'm looking forward to the 5S shifting things up a few notches.

0 upvotes
eyefuse
By eyefuse (11 months ago)

The 5c is hardly aimed at competing with cheaper androids and WP.. it's only $100 less than the 5s.. !? Still premium price i'd say.

No idea why prices in US are told as operator deals? If I understood correctly the 5c costs $599 and the 5s $699, when you actually buy one.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
OvinceZ
By OvinceZ (11 months ago)

What worries me is what the marketing people tell Apple what is wanted in a phone. Those of us waiting for the state of the art for phones/cameras are left wanting.
Men probably want larger screens. Heck, we want the best of what is on offer and Apple is no longer delivering it. Yes, they have fine tuned their products but leave most enthusiasts disappointed.
4 inch screen and 8 Mp is not state of the art. Maybe women prefer the smaller size and auto everything?
I will be looking elsewhere and forget about the cameras as being so important. 5 inch screen is a minimum for me.

3 upvotes
Philip Goh
By Philip Goh (11 months ago)

What were you expecting? They've made the lens 1/3 stop brighter and the sensor 15% bigger while thankfully keeping the pixel count the same.

I personally hoped they'd do a HTC One and release a lower pixel count sensor, but that would never fly with most marketing departments.

0 upvotes
Nukunukoo
By Nukunukoo (11 months ago)

No. "Us women" want better, not this faux macho of bigger. The better pixel performance on the phone is a good step forward. IF you were a pro photographer, you'd know that. Personally, it's the software that's most important to me and how fast it runs. IOS7 sure looks like a refined winner! Bigger screens? I got tablets for that.

9 upvotes
BaldCol
By BaldCol (11 months ago)

If you want a state of the art phone/camera buy:

1) a camera
2) a mobile telephone.

4 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (11 months ago)

BaldCol, as long as you do not worry about having a smart phone, why not just consider a Nokia 808. The phone performance is superb, and the camera is state of the art

2 upvotes
Anssi Kumpula
By Anssi Kumpula (11 months ago)

I've heard (not used myself) 41 MP on Lumia make the camera to operate NOT instantly. That's what I've prefer on a mobile device. Would be nice to know how much iPhone 5S benefits with its 8 MP operation QUICKNESS-wise.

0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

Even earlier iPhones operate(d) much faster than the 808 / 1020, both shoot-to-shoot and time-to-shoot-first-image wise. They're much better suited for action photography.

Yup, there are also disadvantages of high pixel counts...

1 upvote
G1Houston
By G1Houston (11 months ago)

According to Consumer Reports: "The iPhone 5 already has one of the best cameras in our Ratings, and it still takes the best video of any phone we've tested, even beating the 42-megapixel Nokia Lumia 1020."

1 upvote
AndyHWC
By AndyHWC (11 months ago)

I use Consumer Report to help me on car purchase, or see which toaster produces better toasts. But I never rely on it for camera. I still remember how they made conclusion based on >1 year old price and features.

But having said that. It is nice to see 720p high speed video. I am sure the 5S will take good enough picture for most users. In fact, ladies always prefer iphone photo because it makes their skin looks better ;-)

Comment edited 42 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
coudet
By coudet (11 months ago)

"What Apple's new iPhones mean for photographers" ?

Nothing.

11 upvotes
BaldCol
By BaldCol (11 months ago)

Too be fair you can run some useful apps, like 'the photographers ephemeris'

1 upvote
James Booba
By James Booba (11 months ago)

dpreview´s own list:

1. Wider aperture for better low-light photos
- fail
2. A better, brighter and warmer flash
- done
3. A bigger sensor
- more fail then done
4. More megapixels
- fail
5. Longer battery life
- maybe done

so ... Apple 5S .. s as same crap. 5C cheapo ... aint a cheapo at all (fail)

Comment edited 55 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
Hobbit13
By Hobbit13 (11 months ago)

it has a larger aperture, and it has a bigger sensor. Why do you put "fail" at those points.
Battery life is said to be comparable, and I don't hear a lot of people complaining about the battery life of their iPhone 5.

7 upvotes
BaldCol
By BaldCol (11 months ago)

Sounds like you need to buy a camera

1 upvote
Reilly Diefenbach
By Reilly Diefenbach (11 months ago)

Does it have a "back" button?

2 upvotes
Plastek
By Plastek (11 months ago)

Button? What for? Just swipe your fingers on the screen and you have your 'back' button. Evr heard of touch screens?

2 upvotes
qwertyasdf
By qwertyasdf (11 months ago)

Rather than wanting to know what the iPhone means to the photographer, I'd want to know what does a photographer mean nowadays???

5 upvotes
This The Cam
By This The Cam (11 months ago)

Yeh, I think people who complain have it backwards. What do photographers mean to Apple? The answer is: not much. The market will decide this.

0 upvotes
supeyugin1
By supeyugin1 (11 months ago)

Is somebody still buying this junk from Apple? I don't see any reason of doing that.

6 upvotes
jvideographer
By jvideographer (11 months ago)

Actually, quite a few people buy these Apple products, in case you haven't noticed.
In addition, there are competing products that many people buy.
Isn't it great to have a choice!

1 upvote
supeyugin1
By supeyugin1 (11 months ago)

People who buy iphone (and some other Apple products) must be also taking Apple Pills. Otherwise I can't see any reason for a sane person buying that crap.

1 upvote
Plastek
By Plastek (11 months ago)

Just like I dont see why any sane person would buy anything from Samsung.

1 upvote
sublogic
By sublogic (11 months ago)

I think people are generally mad that Instagram pictures taken with a mobile phone are outshining their $3000+ setups in some cases. They can't stomach the fact that they just spent 3+ hours in Photoshop achieving some effect that took me no more than a minute to do in SnapSeed/Instagram.

10 upvotes
pfzt
By pfzt (11 months ago)

i think you have a point. Apples iPhone cam has never been top notch, but they always managed to deliver very pleasing pictures, at least more pleasing than the Android and Nokia phones. It's always about the details like the new warm tone LED Flash or some tricks in software. Just more pixel doesn't cut it, it always is about the overall experience and Apple knows that.

2 upvotes
Johnsonj
By Johnsonj (11 months ago)

Yup!

0 upvotes
JWest
By JWest (11 months ago)

If, after 3 hours in Photoshop I accidentally create something that looks like it's come out of Instagram, I'm quite happy to invest another five seconds deleting it. ;)

13 upvotes
BaldCol
By BaldCol (11 months ago)

Never understood the facination with making my high quality images look like they were taken on a light leaking kodak 110

5 upvotes
Photomonkey
By Photomonkey (11 months ago)

Kudos to Apple for using a warm tone LED flash to balance the color to a warm artificial light ambient scene. They got it.
My 4S takes amazing photos and is the perfect travel camera as it really does fit in a pocket.

3 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (11 months ago)

lets hope this warm tone LED can also increase the range of the overall LED array.

0 upvotes
anthonyGR
By anthonyGR (11 months ago)

Seriously dpreview, you say "a fairly underwhelming spec of 8 megapixels". C'mon guys, you know better than that. I don't care about the iPhone, but 8 megapixels in these tiny sensors is already ridiculous. The HTC one is boasting "ultra-pixels" and still doesn't match a decent camera in image quality. Why do you have to perpetuate the nonsense by implying that the 21 and 40 megapixel phone cameras are better.

8 upvotes
sir_bazz
By sir_bazz (11 months ago)

The 40 megapixel phone camera you refer to is the nokia?

Well it's better because it has a larger sensor.

8 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (11 months ago)

HTC has 4 MP but 13 MP phones have better image quality.

Conclusively disproving the often repeated claim that less MP are better.

3 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (11 months ago)

Dear Sir_bazz, we have talked that thing over and over again this last year, Big pixel count is for the ignorant user, about Nokia 1020 the 28mm lens is TOO small for the specific sensor, giving awful light aberration off center.

2 upvotes
sir_bazz
By sir_bazz (11 months ago)

Hey Petrogel. I'll take your word for it because I lost interest in the 1020 after reading that the sensor was smaller than my current 808.

2 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (11 months ago)

Greetings to Down under !!!!
Wish you nice photos !!!

0 upvotes
nathanleebush
By nathanleebush (11 months ago)

I'm no Apple fanboy, but the vitriol on here is crazy. All the companies are fiercely innovating and choosing different priorities as they go, since no company can do EVERYTHING. Apple is about simplicity, so your mother can use, so of course manual control will be limited. This is still among the top 3 cameraphones available in terms of final IQ, and there seems to be a lot of positive software solutions in this version. Rome wasn't built in a day. They can't completely reinvent the device every year. I'd like a bigger, higher res screen (they can start by getting it edge to edge) and a expandable memory, since that's where they really screw you, on memory upgrades many multiples the true cost. I, for one, am glad to not have a massive megapixel count on a fingernail sized sensor.

In the end, it's your unique photographic eye that matters. I got into a major NYC exhibit (Another NY) with 'just' iPhone pics, and nobody cared it wasn't shot on a Phase.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
13 upvotes
supeyugin1
By supeyugin1 (11 months ago)

"This is still among the top 3 cameraphones available in terms of final IQ".
Not anymore, for more than a year. You're dreaming.

6 upvotes
sapphire lens
By sapphire lens (11 months ago)

ALERT: The Table above is incorrect:

iPhone 5C has a sapphire lens cover.

Source:
http://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/

0 upvotes
Richard Shih
By Richard Shih (11 months ago)

Thanks. I've made the correction.

0 upvotes
David Hurt
By David Hurt (11 months ago)

iPhones do NOT interest me. I am Samsung All the way!!

2 upvotes
Ergo607
By Ergo607 (11 months ago)

Samsungs do not interest me, I am iPhone All the way!

7 upvotes
nathanleebush
By nathanleebush (11 months ago)

I like my bread butter side down!

0 upvotes
anthonyGR
By anthonyGR (11 months ago)

Then what are doing reading an article about iPhones?

10 upvotes
Skeptical Steve
By Skeptical Steve (11 months ago)

Well, good for you, sport. Good for you.

Have you anything else to add?

0 upvotes
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (11 months ago)

Hope the batteries are better this time...

.

1 upvote
Lee Jay
By Lee Jay (11 months ago)

You'll get better pictures if you put a piece of electrical tape over the lens of your iPhone. I'm serious.

1 upvote
JethroKK
By JethroKK (11 months ago)

Is there a way to subscribe to these comment threads?
I want to be emailed about new posts... Test...

0 upvotes
Tom_A
By Tom_A (11 months ago)

Many people here dismiss phones as not being for "serious" photography.

I like to walk around with my "serious" cameras, both digital and medium format film cameras.
However I don't have them always with me. But I always have my iphone with me and I am happy that in many situations it gives acceptable results.
The linked photo was taken with my iphone 4s, with the hipstamatic app which has a few black and white settings that look good out of the box. I did not have a "proper" camera with me at that moment. I think that the picture is usable (feel free to disagree): http://oi43.tinypic.com/9uc1tc.jpg

3 upvotes
thecameraeye
By thecameraeye (11 months ago)

That's pleasantly detailed for a phone camera. If you hadn't said it out loud and posted it somewhere, I doubt people would have guessed it was a phone picture.

The only thing that might give it away is the luminance/chroma noise.

0 upvotes
Mister J
By Mister J (11 months ago)

Yep, an attractive image.

My iP4S takes fine pix, and I sell lots of them - it's the photographer's eye that counts, not what the shot's taken on.

1 upvote
Michael Ma
By Michael Ma (11 months ago)

I was surprised to see the iPhone 4, 4s, 5 have lens profiles in Adobe products like ACR, Photoshop, and Lightroom. It would be killer if they output RAW files. Maybe Apple will spend 5 years inventing a way to get the RAW file from your phone to your computer and announce they have invented the concept of RAW image files.

3 upvotes
Skeptical Steve
By Skeptical Steve (11 months ago)

Actually, a quick look through the App Store reveals that there are several applications – RawPhoto, Digital Negative and HDR Shot Free, to mention a few – that claim to produce RAW images from iPhones. Mysteriously, Apple has made no claims to have invented the concept of RAW image files even though their devices are essential to the functioning of these programs.

What exactly is your point, if you have one?

0 upvotes
Lawrencew
By Lawrencew (11 months ago)

More likely Apple will invent a new format and declare RAW obsolete... (of course it will still be 'RAW' just that Apple can now patent it, make it proprietary and lock people into using only their image editors...)

0 upvotes
Skeptical Steve
By Skeptical Steve (11 months ago)

You think that's "likely"? And how would Apple square that with Nikon, Canon and so on, which they would have to do if they wanted to retain professional users as customers? When exactly has Apple ever done something like that? Be specific, now.
Actually, that sort of thing is more typical of Microsoft, which, for example, has tried to discourage the use of the .doc format in favour of the .xdoc format, allegedly an "open" variant on XML but actually a bloated monster of a format that takes hundreds of pages to describe and which most of MS's competitors prefer to ignore.
It's obvious you have some fantasy concept of Apple as an especially villainous corporation, but why inflict it on us? If you don't like Apple's products, don't buy them – and spare us silly fantasies about the company.

0 upvotes
Mrrowe8
By Mrrowe8 (11 months ago)

All this is , is another great avenue to create images Ever shoot with a pin hole camera ? Holga , Diana or fisher price camera, or blow an image up so large it taxes the grain or noise or pixilated of an image ?? .. See those are used and done by artist , and a photographic artist is very interested in what a cell phone camera can do .. It expands the ability of image making to places not thought of yet .. It's a tool to create images .. And doesn't matter if its a phone or PS as long as u can make an image coupled with a body of work concept .. The rest is on the artist as to how to make these images .. It's not about what isn't its about what it is and can do .. And that's where it get exciting as an image maker ..

7 upvotes
Adamaflex
By Adamaflex (11 months ago)

Bravo. I couldn't of put it better myself, this is the best comment i have ever read on DPreview. I ranted at my work mates about all the cynismism and mentality of the other posters

0 upvotes
Johnsonj
By Johnsonj (11 months ago)

Yep, but some people just don't get it. Usually the ones that are heavily invested in photo gear.

0 upvotes
whtchocla7e
By whtchocla7e (11 months ago)

Then buy a $100 phone that has a camera.

Why does an artist need a $800 phone to explore his creative avenues?

A cheap, crappy phone is a better challenge.

0 upvotes
Anthony McCallister
By Anthony McCallister (11 months ago)

Just compare the resale value of an iPhone and the resale value of any other phone and let me know if there really is a comparison. ...

0 upvotes
whtchocla7e
By whtchocla7e (11 months ago)

As a photographer, I'm not particularly enticed by expensive throw-away electronic gadgets. I was born too late. Wish I had a real darkroom :(

4 upvotes
mr moonlight
By mr moonlight (11 months ago)

At least someone isn't caught up in the micro sensor mega pixel war. 8MP is too much as it is. I'd much rather have better quality images and better low light performance. If I need high resolution pics, I pull out my regular camera.

7 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (11 months ago)

it is all about convergence and convenience. It is just that much easier to upload and share images captured using smart phone over capturing with a dedicated digicam, and then having to upload via wifi to a phone, then upload.

With every model of smartphone progression, we are seeing an improvement in camera technology. Very soon in the not too distant future, the technology will reach a pinnacle where images from either a digicam or a smart phone will be near identical.

0 upvotes
anthonyGR
By anthonyGR (11 months ago)

Yes, but unless your friends/viewers have a 4K monitor, sharing 8mpix images means you have to resize them, so they might as well have put a 2mpix camera in there which is enough to fill a full HD display.

1 upvote
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (11 months ago)

@ anthonyGR. I guess the reason for 8mp instead of 2Mp, is to allow images captured from the iPhone to be not only shared online, but also to be printed onto physical media

0 upvotes
Johnsonj
By Johnsonj (11 months ago)

I'm an amateur so I never "need" high resolution pics, but those 8MP seem about right when I make excellent 10x10" prints for my photo album.

0 upvotes
mydpname
By mydpname (11 months ago)

Apple made the right decision to leave the sensor size at 8 MP. There is no need for addt'l megapixels in a non-DSLR. It's plenty. Anything more is mostly hype.

1 upvote
Joffun
By Joffun (11 months ago)

If Apple think they are going to break into the emerging markets, including China, at these prices I think they are mistaken. Phone contract subsidies in many parts of Asia are generally either non-existent or a fraction of those offered in the US, so the cost of the phone is going to put off many potential buyers.

I recently bought a dual sim Android phone which is fantastic for about a third of the price of the iPhone 5c. The iPhone will be better in some areas (although not screen size and battery life) but it will be difficult for Apple to beat the Chinese manufacturers on price and overall value which are very important in emerging markets.

Apple is seen as a luxury item, so the iPhone 5c undoes that - why buy Apple if people are going to question why you could only afford the "cheap" version.

Comment edited 53 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
thecameraeye
By thecameraeye (11 months ago)

"Apple is seen as a luxury item, so the iPhone 5c undoes that - why buy Apple if people are going to question why you could only afford the "cheap" version."

Well said. Paying all that much for a plastic iPhone doesn't make sense. I think the iPhone 5 is going to sell better than it ever did now.

Also, I don't think that people have noticed, but the muted elegant colors of the 5S just don't go with the bubblegum pop interface of iOS7. It's like the 5C is what they made the interface for.

0 upvotes
Joffun
By Joffun (11 months ago)

What I meant was that buyers are probably now more likely to realise that it is now "acceptable" to not have to buy the most expensive phone so I think the result of this is that more buyers are likely to be attracted to Android phones, particularly in emerging markets where they offer far better value for money.

0 upvotes
Joe Mayer
By Joe Mayer (11 months ago)

The iphone (note it's not called the icamera) is not of consequence to photographers. Photographers have cameras and not phones.

6 upvotes
happypoppeye
By happypoppeye (11 months ago)

Unless your one of those non-photographer National Geographic photographers using a phone.

2 upvotes
Adrian Joseph Roy
By Adrian Joseph Roy (11 months ago)

This sounds a tad snobby, not to mention completely detached from reality. For quite a while, the top three cameras on Flickr have all been iPhones with the Canon 5DII coming in a close 4th. So, all of those people are not photographers? Not even some of them? If so, according to who? You? Please enlighten me, what other cameras weren't real cameras used by real photographers? The SX-70? The Instamatic?

*sigh*

7 upvotes
jcmarfilph
By jcmarfilph (11 months ago)

Sigh... those garbage number of iPhone photos in Flickr? Who cares? Any lousy snapshooter can use any phone and upload garbage photo anytime of the day.

9 upvotes
vFunct
By vFunct (11 months ago)

The only photographers that matter are working professionals.

Amateur dSLR photographers aren't real photographers and their opinions do not matter.

They are amateurs for a reason, which is mostly because they aren't smart enough to understand what editors care about, and you better believe that ALL editors ask their photographers to take cell-phone photos for location shoots for their company's Instagram feeds.

Too many amateur dSLR photographers in this website with no professional intelligence.

1 upvote
four under
By four under (11 months ago)

Any lousy snapshooter can use any camera and upload garbage photo any time of day too. What is it with you that anything you don't own is no good. Frankly, you should spend a lot more time learning a bit about photography, and a lot less time running your mouth.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
sublogic
By sublogic (11 months ago)

Amateur DSLR photographers are still caught up with this notion that having a more expensive camera makes them better photographers. They can't stomach the fact that mobile phones have better capabilities now to take great pictures. They don't understand that there are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs.

1 upvote
Photomonkey
By Photomonkey (11 months ago)

A photographer uses a camera. An iPhone has a camera ,ergo the user is a photographer.
Being arrogant does not improve your photography or protect you from artists using anything they want to make great, good, indifferent, or bad art.

2 upvotes
CortoPA
By CortoPA (11 months ago)

So glad Apple did not make the new Iphone A Nerd Phablet.

Size is just the way a phone should be.

7 upvotes
Joe Ogiba
By Joe Ogiba (11 months ago)

Whatever floats your boat, I prefer the 5" 1080p display on my Verizon HTC Droid DNA with wireless charging. The thrill is gone from Apple and you will never again see mile long lines outside Apple stores.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeXyw1QI-yY

6 upvotes
Kim Letkeman
By Kim Letkeman (11 months ago)

I would truly worry if a phone of any sort appealed to "photography enthusiasts" because -- although it can take an image -- it is not much of a photographic learning tool otherwise. On the other hand, I can see the appeal for "social networking enthusiasts" and press hounds ...

2 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

"I would truly worry if a phone of any sort appealed to "photography enthusiasts" because -- although it can take an image -- it is not much of a photographic learning tool otherwise. "

Well, with a fully automatic shooter like the iPhone, it indeed isn't.

A fully manual camera (1020 / 92x with Pro Camera), of course, is another question - even if you refrain from setting the lens brightness (as it's not possible) and changing the lens (impossible too).

1 upvote
meanwhile
By meanwhile (11 months ago)

Composition and timing need work, thought, and practice, and are at least as important as any other elements of photography. I think you can learn a lot from images you take on a phone.

10 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (11 months ago)

Phone cameras can be learning tools for photography as you still need to know when and how to capture in different light situations, composition, and focusing closer to a subject to narrow the depth of field.

@Menneisyys, agree the iPhone does not have any real manual controls, but in the correct hands, the results can still amaze. You just have to work with the limitations and adjust the technique accordingly.

I like your comment with regards to using the 1020, 92x as a manual camera, with the exception of setting the lens brightness. I just chuckled when I read that as I know my Nokia 808 has one ace left up it's sleeve and that is the ability to change lens brightness by means of the built in ND filter.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
1 upvote
Mrrowe8
By Mrrowe8 (11 months ago)

That's incredibly short sighted. .. Ever shoot with a pin hole camera ? Holga , Diana or fisher price camera .. See those are use by artist , and a photographic artist is very interested in what a cell phone camera can do .. It expands the ability of image making to places not thought of yet .. It's a tool to create images .. And doesn't matter if its a phone or PS as long as u can make an image coupled with a body of work concept .. The rest is on the artist

0 upvotes
Photomonkey
By Photomonkey (11 months ago)

Manual controls are not a necessity to the learning of how to make a great photo. You are confusing technical knowledge with art.
The art is the seeing, not calculations and the twirling of knobs.

3 upvotes
Johnsonj
By Johnsonj (11 months ago)

I learned photography in about an hour. It's real simple. Now learning how to "see"...that's a different matter. Some people instinctively "see" while others will never "see."

0 upvotes
Kim Letkeman
By Kim Letkeman (11 months ago)

@meanwhile -- not my point, you can learn a lot with any camera, of course ... it is still not much of an instrument
@mrrowe8 -- I love how enthusiast is so often confused with arteest :-) ... I was not being short sighted at all, but rather was commenting on phone as "enthusiast" device, not as social computing arteest device ... you are obviously one of the latter ...
@photomonkey -- I didn't say that you couldn't make a great photo with a phone ... but an enthusiast generally means someone who wants to remove limitations and really learn the craft (as opposed to the art) ...
@johnson -- that was very funny ... you probably think you know photography, but in fact just know how to push a button ... that's about what an hour can teach you ... and learning to see is about half the battle ... learning to capture what you see under all lighting conditions, that is the other half ... good luck with your phone.

0 upvotes
EvokeEmotion
By EvokeEmotion (11 months ago)

Apple is like the rail-thin chick who can eat anything she wants and still look gorgeous and get hit on left and right.

Apple-haters are like those who chew on celery and still gain 10 pounds a week. They are totally annoyed that other phones are faster, have more features, cheaper, etc. but Apple still outsells them.

Who do they take out their anger on? The "stupid" iSheep that enable Apple, of course.

Comment edited 13 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

Outselling (appeal for the masses, who, in general, are pretty much ignorant, technology-wise and all they want is something shiny and easy-to-operate) doesn't necessarily mean technical superiority. Not in the least.

6 upvotes
jcmarfilph
By jcmarfilph (11 months ago)

Hmm who is the #1 in mobile sales right now? Clue, it doesn't start with an i. Apple is still alive because of the fanboys with pride who will buy the product no matter how worthless the upgrade from the previous model is.

3 upvotes
Adrian Joseph Roy
By Adrian Joseph Roy (11 months ago)

"Apple is still alive because of the fanboys with pride who will buy the product no matter how worthless the upgrade from the previous model is."

That's right, everyone who bought an iPhone 5 is a sucker. They all got duped. Luckily, you saw through the scam and didn't get taken. You bought a different phone, and now you can sit back and laud your own decision, and deride everyone else's. The iPhone is clearly, objectively, a worthless product. It's not up for debate. It's not even the #1 selling phone, that proves it right there. Well done, sir...well done.

5 upvotes
mr moonlight
By mr moonlight (11 months ago)

EvokeEmotion, You got it right on. Apple products simply work and their business model and products have been a dominant force in the market for quite some time now despite the fact that their OS holds only a small fraction of the market.

Are their products great for the masses, "who, in general, are pretty much ignorant, technology-wise and all they want is something shiny and easy-to-operate"? Yes. Definitely. That's most of us. Are Apple products technically superior? Who cares. Having worked in IT for quite a few years I'm very tech savvy, but still only use MAC. PC's are great, but I spend too much time keeping them running. Both systems work great, but since Apple products all work seamlessly together, it makes my work flow that much more efficient. It's sort of like my car. It needs to take me from point A to B, look good and be fun to drive. I know how to work on it, but I'd rather not waste the time doing it.

1 upvote
Verne
By Verne (11 months ago)

Okay, I give.

So what is the #1 selling phone then anyway?

Note I did not say phone OS - unless you want to include iPads and iPod Touches which share iOS.

0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

"That's most of us. Are Apple products technically superior? Who cares. Having worked in IT for quite a few years I'm very tech savvy, but still only use MAC."

That's a wrong analogy. I'm too using an MBP 17" because I too find OS X easier to operate (not having to install / fine-tune virus killers etc.) However, the case of MBP's can't really be compared to the case of iPhones. The former don't really have significant(!) handicaps or shortcomings, hardware-wise, compared to their PC peers. (Except for the price.) The iPhone 5S' camera does - lack of OIS, 1080p60, stereo, manual modes etc - and the list (see below) continues.

Now, imagine an MBP with, say, significantly lower-res and lower-quality screen than the PC counterparts. That's the exact analogy of the iPhone 5s when it comes to imaging, compared to the contemporary alternatives like the G2 or the 1020: lack of OIS, stereo, manual modes etc.

0 upvotes
Sactojim
By Sactojim (11 months ago)

Yawn. Ok, a few new colors, another LCD light on the flash, still no 4.5-5" screen. Is it any wonder that Android continues to pull ahead. Former iphone 4 user here who got tired of squinting at a 3.5" screen and then that annoying itunes..pass. Rocking on a SIII that gives me better photos, bigger screen, and no itunes!
So the iphone has been mentioned too frequently that it will cause the demise of a good p&s cam? Nope. Not even close.

4 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (11 months ago)

I think the target market for the iphone does not necessarily have to follow android phones with massive screens. The formfactor of the iPhone allows for easy one handed operation, and allows the phone to be slightly more pocketable. I do not think the iPhone was designed to be a tablet replacement.

5 upvotes
Holger Drallmeyer
By Holger Drallmeyer (11 months ago)

The New iPhone 5S, S for same .....and the new iPhone 5C, C for cheap. meewww

1 upvote
thx1138
By thx1138 (11 months ago)

Under the skin the iPhone is of course very nice and they do excellent CPU and GPU, but the 4" form factor is totally lame for what is after all a visual device. Not changing resolution even to a true 720p is lame. This might have actually been of interest in a 5" 1080p from factor, which the hardware could easily drive. I do laud Apple for staying at 8MP for the camera, something Sony could learn a lesson from.

For me I'll take either a Galaxy Note III, HTC One Max or LG G2, just for the screen real estate alone.

2 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

" I do laud Apple for staying at 8MP for the camera, something Sony could learn a lesson from."

Yup, the image quality of the 20 Mpixel 1/2.3" SONY Z1 is a joke. Definitely not the same league as the LG g2, the Nokia 1020/92x, the GS4 or even the iPhone 5.

1 upvote
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (11 months ago)

@Menneisyys

I thought the pixel pitch of the Z1 and the 1020 are pretty similar with the exception that the 1020 can use pixel over sampling to improve the output JPG?

What is the reason you basing that the SGS4 is better than the Z1 for image capture?

Comment edited 34 seconds after posting
1 upvote
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (11 months ago)

The pixel pitch has little to do with it. Jpeg processing is what really counts here. Look at the S4 and the Z (older sibling of the Z1), both share the same Sony 13MP sensor and the S4 scored best of the competition back then, the Z ended at the bottom.

So the lesson for Sony can't be found in the amount of pixels. I'm pretty sure the 20 MP is at least as good if not better than their excellent 13 MP sensor, for one because it's larger too. The lesson for Sony should be in how to process their RAW's. Mostly when it comes to NR and sharpening.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

"I thought the pixel pitch of the Z1 and the 1020 are pretty similar with the exception that the 1020 can use pixel over sampling to improve the output JPG?"

While the 1:1 full-res images of the 1020 are a mess (as are those of the Z1), properly (not in-camera) downsampled ones are already better.

Also, let me cite a question (statement) and Lars Rehm's answer from http://connect.dpreview.com/post/7903063822/sony-xperia-z1-sample-gallery :

- Good for a phone but miles behind the Nokia 1020 and 808.
- I think that's a fair statement.

That is, according to the first notes of the DPReview folks, the 1020 seems to have considerably better IQ than the Z1.

1 upvote
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (11 months ago)

@Menneisyys, silly me, you know I love using full resolution! So basically what you are saying is the 5Mp pureview images from the 1020 will still have better IQ than the likes of the 20MP Z1?

0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

"So basically what you are saying is the 5Mp pureview images from the 1020 will still have better IQ than the likes of the 20MP Z1?"

As
- I haven't directly compared the two AND
- I have reservations on the built-in downsampling algorithm of the 1020 (as opposed to the 808),

I don't know.

I think it's safe to state the 1020 would produce better results than the Z1 if you downsampled their original hi-res images on the desktop, with a decent (unlike that of Nokia) downsampler.

0 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (11 months ago)

Don't "state" it cause it's not true Samsung brings the best image quality at the comparison chart, will expect the new comparison with iP5S !!!

0 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (11 months ago)

I told you before, check your ophthalmologist, it might get worst !!!

0 upvotes
jcmarfilph
By jcmarfilph (11 months ago)

Hmmm larger sensor or brighter lens? It is still crippled and won't come close to decent compact and pureview cams. This should be best at 2-3MP max. Still slippery brick with lousy IS so low shutter shot are still blurry.

1 upvote
M Lammerse
By M Lammerse (11 months ago)

An Appleholic colleague of me once said, when Steve Jobs died, Apple died too. Not sure if it is true, but despite the design, what makes the 5S as previous models really stands out in relation to it's competitors?

Take for example the Google Nexus4, it will cost you now 28.000 Yen or 250 Euros (probable 250 dollars?) for a 16GB version, with no expensive subscription or contracts to go.

Brandism has it's price, and despite the logo I think going plastic will not make it for Apple

3 upvotes
graybalanced
By graybalanced (11 months ago)

Some people won't be happy unless Apple does miracles, but there are a lot of good things about the new iPhone camera. Seriously, it's good to have a larger aperture, larger sensor/pixel sizes, 120fps (I recently bought a camera for that feature), dual-color flash (surely you realize how ghastly the color balance is on most LED flashes), and local tone mapping!

These are worthwhile. Apple didn't have to do all that. Optical stabilization would be nice, and so would manual exposure control but you can get that with apps. Apple did a good job here.

3 upvotes
M Lammerse
By M Lammerse (11 months ago)

I've an ipad, it's personally for me the real most innovative product of Apple in a long long time. It's well build, all is working as it should be, but it's not a camera. It's like a digital Swiss army (pocket) knife. The same for the Iphone5S

0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

It's 3Q2013. A lot of competitors have
- OIS - the most important!
- any type of manual control outside auto modes - also important
- stereo audio recording
- 1080p60
- PiP
- Xenon flash

Apple don't. And this is the problem.

"120fps (I recently bought a camera for that feature),"

Again: it's highly probable that 120fps mode will be crippled by pixel binning - as has always been the case with previous models running at 31+ fps.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (11 months ago)

yup agree, Apple was never in the forefront of implementing the latest technology out there, but when they do, they do it just right.

0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

"yup agree, Apple was never in the forefront of implementing the latest technology out there, but when they do, they do it just right."

I'm just sick of waiting for YEARS for a feature I can have NOW. For example, smartphones started supporting 720p recording with stereo audio in early 2010 (with the Nokia N8). The iPhone? It still doesn't support it - and won't for another year.

Add the lack of OIS and you'll understand why I plan to get the LG G2 (which has both + 1080p60).

Comment edited 25 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Danlo
By Danlo (11 months ago)

Hm.. My SG4 has a 2.2 aperture already.. ;)

0 upvotes
Johnsonj
By Johnsonj (11 months ago)

So much hate...something tells me that many ancient dinos are going to be left behind in the form of oil in the earth's crust.

2 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (11 months ago)

8 mp camera, Retina display, more photo apps than any other platform - for $99. What's not to like?

1 upvote
Petrogel
By Petrogel (11 months ago)

The two year contract that will totally cost you more than $700 plus phone calls !!!
Notice that you are buying an old devise the only part is new is the colored plastics.
Too much money for colored plastics

Comment edited 9 minutes after posting
6 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (11 months ago)

The lack of image stabilization, any type of manual control outside auto modes. And the real price of the package, bumping up your contract to amounts comparable to high end phones from other companies.

4 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (11 months ago)

> The two year contract that will totally cost you more than $700 plus phone calls !!!

And the Lumia 1020 or Samsung S3 won't cost this much? Of course they will.

From a photographer's perspective I suppose the iPhone 5C, other than the Retina display is underwhelming, but as a smartphone - mp3 player, apps, camera, face time, display - it's actually quite competitive.

Re: plastics, almost everyone uses some kind of cover for their smartphone. What on earth does it matter if the unit you are covering up is metal or plastic?

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 14 seconds after posting
1 upvote
shigzeo ?
By shigzeo ? (11 months ago)

@TrojMacReady

The beauty of the smartphone is that you can buy apps to cover things like manual control, ISO, etc. But let's be honest, a smartphone with any calibre of camera/sensor/manual controls won't replace a fast lens on a large sensor and a proper camera.

As smartphones get better and better they allow you take less equipment to things like parties where a real camera just gets in the way. That is, unless you are the photographer there for the express purpose of photographing the event.

I'm excited though because my contract still has a year left on it, won't be getting one.

0 upvotes
TrojMacReady
By TrojMacReady (11 months ago)

I don't see the display to be that competitive (competing screens are up to 48% larger and have almost 3 times as many pixels). The Apple display has good color accuracy and good maximum brightness, average contrast, quite average blacklevels, quite severe contrast and color shifts under angle compared to some competing screens and a too blue whitebalance.

Some phones costing half as much have 720P screens competitive to this.

And as for buying apps, the beauty is that I don't want to be forced to buy apps to gain control over the most basic parameters. There is no excuse to not give that control, even if hidden for novices in a menu.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

"The beauty of the smartphone is that you can buy apps to cover things like manual control, ISO, etc"

Wrong. As I've explained numerous times here in the DPReviews forums, on the iPhone, you simply cannot do almost anything manually, not even with third-party apps. All you can do is:

- using separate focus and exposure POI's (but they'll still be automatic - no manual focus / exposure is possible)
- allow for auto-extending the ISO over 1000 on iPhone 5's
- allow for auto-extending the shutter speed up to 1s

But you in no way can directly dial in / set anything. Not even exposure compensation. Unlike on competing platforms, where exposure compensation, WB and ISO has been manually settable since their very first versions. And, with WP and Nokia's more expensive phones, with Pro Camera, you can manually set anything, even focus.

1 upvote
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (11 months ago)

"And as for buying apps, the beauty is that I don't want to be forced to buy apps to gain control over the most basic parameters. There is no excuse to not give that control, even if hidden for novices in a menu."

The problem with iOS is that you can't gain control to those parameters via third-party apps either.

Some apps like KitCam even trick users thinking they're applying proper exposure compensation while they're just applying it post-shooting. (See the last section of http://www.iphonelife.com/blog/87/exposure-compensation-and-bracketing-bible on this if interested.) Unfortunately, a lot of iOS apps cheat like this.

0 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (11 months ago)

@Menneisyys I think the iPhone camera was meant to be easy to use. Although there is limited to no manual control over anything in the default camera app, it does allow for literally anybody to be able use it. I think the improved camera over the 5 is a bonus, which will allow for even better images to be casually captured.

For users with a photographic background, the simple iPhone camera can be used as it, and for some it can be quite relaxing not having to concentrate on controlling, shutter speeds, exposure, image quality, image resolution etc.

For those wanting relaly enjoy full manual control like you and I, we can rest assured that the 808 and the 1020 will for-fill our needs.

0 upvotes
shigzeo ?
By shigzeo ? (11 months ago)

@TrojMacReady

I think it is obvious that the iPhone isn't for you. I've noted elsewhere that Apple don't compete on a price/feature level. If they used the same OS as everyone else did, they would have to. But since they brand their experience they are not caught by having to make larger or faster or cheaper just to sell.

0 upvotes
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