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There's no such thing as 'pro' photographers: More details

228
The new Flickr: You will see adds, you won't see Pro account badges.

Much of the fallout surrounding Flickr's massive updates this Monday continues to center around changes to Pro user accounts. Oh, and then there was that thing Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer said: “There’s no such thing as Flickr Pro today because [with so many people taking photographs] there’s really no such thing as professional photographers anymore.”

Along with significant visual changes throughout the photo sharing and storage site, Flickr introduced a new account structure Monday that eliminated the $25-per-year-unlimited-storage Flickr Pro option. Instead, accounts start at the Free level which includes a free terabyte of space — though this comes at its own price paid in advertising. Ad Free accounts cost $49.99 annually and exclude advertising. Doublr accounts are $499.99 per year for two terabytes.

Details were initially fuzzy about what would happen to Pro users, and a backlash ensued as it appeared this option was disappearing entirely, but Flickr now says these customers can renew their unlimited storage plan for $25 annually. That's an amazing deal for those "grandfathered in": if you're lucky enough to be one of them, just be sure to sign up for a recurring Pro subscription.

Pro members also have until August 20, 2013 to opt for the Free account model and receive a prorated refund for their Pro account fee. Flickr offers many more answers about Pro account changes on its website.

Mayer's statement about how professional photographers no longer exist may be less simple to patch up, however. One of the better commentaries we've seen on the topic comes from photography consultant Jim Colton, who wrote:

"This is perhaps one of the stupidest comments I have ever heard, it is also an insult to all the professional photographers throughout history who have sacrificed everything to their craft … including their lives."

You can read Colton's full commentary here

Mayer has since apologized for her "misstatement" and is continuing to do so via her Twitter account

Comments

Total comments: 228
12
Foto Gal

I am quite offended by the above statement "“There’s no such thing as Flickr Pro today because {with so many people taking photographs] there’s really no such thing as professional photographers anymore.”
Just because you take photos does not make you a professional. The only way you are a professional is if you make or have made your living with photography.
"with so many people taking photographs", there people are considered hobbists not pros.

0 upvotes
architographer

What has been said is enough said.

0 upvotes
rondhamalam

I forgive you.
Because you are sweet

0 upvotes
Giyogi

Bunch of opinion, which is like... you know, we all have one. Things change. Roll with it. Who says your so perfect? I like the new flickr interface. Took me a couple of days but I figured it out. Now I get it and it works well for me. Get over it.

1 upvote
KodaChrome25

M&M is a Google plant. She alienated half of YaHoo's employees. She's now alienating YaHoo subscribers. She dropped over a bil on Tumblr. She'll parachute out with another big chunk-o-cash. Then she'll run for Gov of CA having destroyed YaHoo. Like Whitman with E-Bay and now HP. Like Fiorina with HP.

5 upvotes
Marino Pascal

Hate women much?

0 upvotes
rallyfan

Marino Pascal: what a dense statement. KodaChrome25 is absolutely correct. Your "net speak" ... much comment is way out of line.

2 upvotes
atlien991

I said the same thing about M&M the day she was announced. Her job is to sink them.

2 upvotes
rallyfan

She may be unable to sink them entirely. Her statements aren't lacking in idiocy but so far, so good and her poor choices may actually accidentally end up helping the firm. It's very odd.

0 upvotes
spbStan

Someone has to shake up Yahoo and she is doing what many people think is needed. Some may disagree with the details but no one disagrees that Yahoo needs to change radically to survive. Give her a chance.......

0 upvotes
rallyfan

My sole feeling on the issue is that, given her photo alone, she is highly erectile.

The rest is all nonsense.

1 upvote
KodaChrome25

Pascal: no, just these three + Palin + Bachmann. Hey I did not pick them. All I know is that they all killed (or are killing) viable enterprises.

0 upvotes
wansai

I don't understand what all the hoohaa is about. really I don't. All I can say is "sensitive much"?

All I know is, I get a free TB of space.

3 upvotes
Telefoto

I'm actually impressed by what Mayer has done with Yahoo so far. Can she make it relevant again? Hard to say, but so far she's done much better than I expected. She seems to be a CEO with some good ideas, and in this context her clumsy statements about there being no pro photographers simply suggest to me that she is like a lot of other tech CEOs - effective behind the scenes but not ready to get on stage and do off-the cuff or semi-improvised advertising copy at PR events. Clearly, few CEOs from any background will be the next Steve Jobs.

1 upvote
inframan

Marissa Mayer is a baby Meg Whitman, turning a fun, imaginative, original site into a money-pumping, user-screwing, corporate drone. How long before she runs for prez, I wonder (shudder) ?

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
John Koch

She gets paid better than you, I'll bet. Jealous?

0 upvotes
KodaChrome25

Gee John, what kind of car do you drive? And thanks for your non sequitur.

1 upvote
spbStan

Are you ignoring the dozen years in between where it was mismanaged, stagnant and boring. Not good traits for internet company's survival.

0 upvotes
Imagingfix

Peoples, a "professional photographer" is a person that makes a living from creating images with a camera. If this isn't you that relax since she was NOT talking about you. She was obviously talking out her ass anyways. I'm sure she has spent some good money for a pro photographer to take her picture and her family. Keep up the chatter on this subject to remind her what not to say. She is not the first or the last to talk stupid in public . . . so until the next one, cheers!

0 upvotes
chj

Many of you are total idiots that fell for the headline just like the writer wanted you to. Want to hear the statement in context? It's completely harmless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgoaMDfhxOw

"Part of the thought experiment that gave rise to this new product, the new interface, the terabyte, was a decision that we would not have Flickr Pro anymore. There's no such thing as Flickr Pro because today with cameras as pervasive as they are, there's no such thing really as professional photographers ... certainly there's varying levels of skills but we didn't want a Flickr Pro anymore, we wanted everyone to have professional quality photo space and sharing."

Wow, what an insult! Aren't you embarrassed that you fell for the "drama" that the writer of this article (and others) have tried to create with an out of context quote? Of course the writer didn't provide a link to the full statement.

Comment edited 6 times, last edit 10 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
chj

P.S. The quote starts at 0:41 of the video

Comment edited 13 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
BroncoBro

As far as I can tell, she said.."...there's no such thing really as professional photographers..." So, you my friend, are the idiot. Hope you are enjoying drinking your own KoolAid.

8 upvotes
chj

Genius! You isolated the quote again! Did you even watch the video? Is she talking about professional photographers? No she's talking about the changes in Flickr's service.

Should I isolate the quote from your post and write an article with the headline "BroncoBro writes there's no such thing as professional photographers." It's true right? You wrote it.

Comment edited 33 seconds after posting
5 upvotes
BroncoBro

Is that Fruit Punch or Grape you're drinking. Go take a reading lesson so you know what you're writing about.

1 upvote
chj

Congrats, you can read. Now try comprehension.

2 upvotes
LJohnK2

I did listen to the link you posted and you are completely correct the headline when put in the context of her statement is completely harmless.

.....frankly I expect better in a headline/news article here.....guess I should not assume this site is fair.....shame on me.

Comment edited 17 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Johnsonj

BroncoBro said of chj: "you know what you're writing about."

1 upvote
beeguy956

What's with the ellipsis? You yourself edited the bit that might have sort of made it more palatable. What she actually said was "there's no such thing, really, as professional photographers when there's everything that's professional photographers. Certainly there's varying levels of skills..."

But then, while it's not quite as insulting as saying flat-out that there are no professional photographers, the full quote only makes her sound even more like an idiot who has no idea what she's talking about.

0 upvotes
Zdman

Its difficult to understand I mean what does "when there's everything that professional photographers mean" so there no need to bash each other on reading comprehension as this is a pretty tongue tied statement. The train of thought though is that professionals are just more skilled. Wrong pro's do it for a living and pro's are sensitive to it because there are a lot of people who make comments like "when are you going to get a real job" (usually much more subtle than that but thats the general jist).

Comment edited 46 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
chj

@beeguy956 I couldn't make out exactly what she was saying there, so rather than misquote, I just showed I left a portion out.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
GeorgeD200

So that headshot of hers on her twitter account was shot by a staffer with an iphone, huh? No professional retouching there either, I'm sure.

3 upvotes
BurkPhoto

There's a reason they call her the chief Yahoo. Sometimes one can be TOO decisive and kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

The concept of pro photographer is changing, however, as photography has been democratized by the Internet, digital cameras, sharing sites, and smart phones. It's not the profession with significant barriers to entry that it once was.

0 upvotes
lbuclk=

....."kill the goose that lays the golden egg." Are you PAYing attention Adobe?

0 upvotes
2020I

She didn't mean it in the way the photographer would become insulted besides cameras are the 'artist' with the tool and language ; the photographer capturing scene by size , angle and position develops what materializes a 'photograph', potentially a professional photograph, when it receives, by demand' , an offer of amount to be paid to the photographer in exchange for print (s). That would be a professional photograph taken by a photographer with a highly sophisticated tech camera. Some captures of scene, kind of considered rare basis, can become most important Capt, specific to... and there are one of a kind captures that appropriately consider it a professional photo.

0 upvotes
BroncoBro

What a crock of junk. I'm a professional photographer with a decidedly UN-sophisticated camera with which I create extraordinary images that people ask me about all the time. An amateur shooting next to me with a far "better" camera posted his shots of a recent
event on flicker and pardon me, but they can't come close to the ones I posted on my website.

Comment edited 29 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
MrGreen

Oh well aren't you Mr. Elite you stupid ass hat.

1 upvote
unknown member
By (unknown member) (May 23, 2013)

She deserves Yahoo and Vice Versa.

1 upvote
LJohnK2

...well.....comments like that are not surprising in a world of highly educated silver spooned 14 year old CEO's who have little life experience......if that shoe doesn't "fit" her then she is simply incredibly ignorant

3 upvotes
LJohnK2

By chj (21 hours ago)
Many of you are total idiots that fell for the headline just like the writer wanted you to. Want to hear the statement in context? It's completely harmless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgoaMDfhxOw

I did listen to the complete statement and chj is correct....completely harmless....I should not have assumed this site is correct.....shame on me for jumping on the bandwagon......I was completely ignorant

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
larrytusaz

She's a cutie and apparently intelligent person overall, and people say things they later take back all of the time, but she is wrong on this case. There is a difference between a snapshooter & a professional. Heck even a hobbyist like myself, I take pride in my shots being better than a snapshooters & would be insulted for someone to make out like we're all the same, and at the same time I respect that a full-blown professional gets great results far more consistently than I do, and I RESPECT them for it.

Beyond that, the new Flickr design--I don't like it when performing a search. I still prefer thumbnails for that, or at least give me size options. Thumbnails are far easier for previewing multiple returns on a search (far less scrolling and far faster rendering) and the way it just keeps loading more & more as you go causes the browser to crash & you lose your place.

0 upvotes
Gary Dean Mercer Clark

I have 6 terrabytes of images so far---so in answer to the fellow that wonder's if pros need unlimited storage--I only wish I'd known about the unlimited pro storage option on flickr in the first place. At $25.00 a year, that would be the worlds greatest deal.

0 upvotes
Lars Rehm

I assume your 6TB include raw files which you cannot upload to flickr

2 upvotes
SRT3lkt

very clever way to get attention.

0 upvotes
Vincent O'Sullivan

Mayer's comment was excellent and shows why she the CEO of one of the largest photo hosting web services in the world. She's generated a level of publicity, chatter and click-throughs for Flickr that money can't buy. Everyone that has commented on her comments is contributing to the success of the product that she's selling.

0 upvotes
BroncoBro

Yes, and I just ditched my Yahoo account, so there's two fewer eyeballs she can claim.

0 upvotes
Lu64

@BroncoBro: good move... now go on and continue taking pictures...

0 upvotes
pcworth

Her comment is interesting in that she is completely wrong. What she should have said is that "Everyone thinks they are pros." This was the comment from a wedding photographer lamenting how many people choose to just take their own photographs instead of hiring a professional to do it.

In the days of film, you trusted in the professionals ability to get the shot when you might not. With digital, you know if you got the shot and can retake if you are not happy.

Maybe this is what she meant when she said their are no "Pros" anymore, unless you define a pro purely as someone who makes money from photography.

0 upvotes
Lu64

That's how it is... as cameras are getting cheaper and more performant, you see more and more amateurs upgrading their material to a pro level.
We had a pro hired to take pictures in the company. I took some pictures too. The comment of my boss was "your pictures are as good as the other ones...". But may be I'm a disguised pro... ;-)
The first time I hired a pro photographar taking digital pictures, I was disapointed because he did JPEG and the compression artefacts were clearly visible. The next time we hired him (we knew him from his former analogue work), he took with him his 16Mpixels Hasselblat and delivered TIFFs. The quality of the pictures are still today amazing, even that I am able now to top that resolution with my 5DMIII. And I have taken some very nice shoots with my 20D and 40D before in both situations: pro (I get paid for shooting) and amateur (no cash for the pictures) shoots.

0 upvotes
mbloof

I think her statement is more along the lines of FILE SIZES. Consumer level cameras and gadgets now have .JPG resolutions equal to 'pro level' equipment of just a few years ago therefore marketing file size limitations based on professional status meaningless.

0 upvotes
contraststudio

I don't think this will be the popular opinion, but I agree with @marissamayer that professional photographers don't really exist (and maybe never did). Here's the article I wrote about it: http://contraststudio.com/behindthescenes/is-there-a-line-between-amateur-and-professional-photography/

1 upvote
Lu64

A professionnel photographer makes money with his activity. An amateur doesn't. That doesn't say anything on quality of the work...

2 upvotes
Good Camera

I agree Lu64

0 upvotes
Good Camera

I just listened to Marissa Mayer's comment on YouTube while part of what she said didn't make sense surely she does not think that there are no professional photographers, those who make a living getting paid for their photography work.

0 upvotes
GeorgeD200

Because so many people drive cars today, there's really no such thing as a "professional" driver.

Ms. Mayer, I suggest you get a professional PR person to do your talking for you, then you won't have to deal with the mess an amateur can make of things.

10 upvotes
Lu64

The driver analogy is not bad at all. And you even have truck drivers with the really heavy equipment as you have pro photographers with really heavy equipment...

0 upvotes
Good Camera

Good analogy George

0 upvotes
al_in_philly

Why can't somebody in a position of authority at Yahoo realize that, yes, the number of people who are serious about their photography isn't a high growth sector, and the real growth is in people snapping tons of not-really-great vacation photos with their smartphones, YET it's absolutely possible (and quite easy) for a photo-sharing site to enable multiple templates for its wide-ranging subscribers to use to showcase their photos? Actually, until this week Flickr users had the option of multiple configuarions for each home page. If they did so again, they might just become the dominant photo sharing site it once was.

Comment edited 32 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Lu64

You can take professionnel pictures with your phone... as you can take simple snapshots with your pro equipment!

0 upvotes
Reg Natarajan

She's largely correct. Photojournalism today is far more about finding new uploads on Youtube than sending out some reporter with a ton of gear.

Personally, I love the new Flickr, and I think my favorite thing about it is the entertaining reaction of the obsessive weirdos who frequent this site.

5 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer

It's great being better than everyone else, isn't it?

4 upvotes
Josh152

Yes because photojournalists are the only type of professional photographer that exists. Think before you post.

Comment edited 33 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer

It's frightening that people cannot grasp even the simplest joke. I was referring the "pro's" claim of superiority over "weirdos" but if it has to be explained, he may be on to something.

0 upvotes
Peanut88

Congrats to Yahoo !

You have won the first prize for the most STUPID way of introducing and upgrading of a old product "FLICKR".

And the most surprising thing is you are not aware of what went wrong or what you did wrong. LOL ! ! !

But we have to make an allowance for the CEO to put her foot in her mouth once in a while.

Yahoo ! is indeed naive, plain stupid and amateurish.
Even their Yahoo Mail interface and system is getting worst.

SIGHHHHH ! ! ! Time to abandon Yahoo totally !

Comment edited 8 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
KodaChrome25

YaHoo mail is the worst!

0 upvotes
rowlandw

I'm suspending flickr-ing until I get the "opt out" or "return to old flickr" button which should be my option as a paying member.

0 upvotes
Lu64

please do so...

0 upvotes
Frederik Paul

So Marissa Mayer is an amateur...

0 upvotes
Lu64

earning that awfull amount of cash makes you a pro! It has nothing to do with your knowledge.

0 upvotes
pookipichu

There's no such thing as a CEO that's worth over a million dollars a year....

9 upvotes
Lu64

True... as soon as you get more money you can possibly spent, you are overpaid.

0 upvotes
hugo solo

Maybe is time to leave Flickr.

0 upvotes
Lu64

please do so!

0 upvotes
ScottRH

She is an idiot. I never use their products or services.

2 upvotes
Lu64

An idiot rarely gets paid that amount of money...

0 upvotes
spidermoon

I guess tumblr user shake in fear too :)

0 upvotes
Lu64

Yeah... it's an earthquake for billions of dollars...

0 upvotes
phil_k

Mayer has a habit of shooting her mouth off about things she either doesn't know about or because she doesn't care.

I participate in the Blackberry (as in smartphone Blackberry) community, and that crowd got similiarly peeved when she announced that she was going to switch Yahoo from using Blackberries to "smartphones" - apparently Mayer-speak for iPhones or Android.

Blackberry of course was a smartphone pioneer and now sells the newest platform in the industry. She just seemed to have an agenda - to paint Blackberries as "old outdated junk" and try to associate Yahoo with trendier stuff. But it just came off as a really stupid and obnoxious comment, unless you happen to be a Apple/Android fanboy.

The whole daycare thing at Yahoo was another heavy-handed debacle. Heavy-handedness is beginning to seem like her hallmark.

I don't believe for a minute this politician-ese "mis-spoke" BS. More like "oops, got caught saying something offensive again, engage evasive spin maneuvers..."

8 upvotes
JMichaelsPhoto

Many of us photographers sure are an unimaginative bunch when it comes to change but personally, I like Flickr's new landing page and overall layout. As a former pro account holder, I was happy to see the implementation of a free account with 1 terabyte of storage included with full resolution sharing- which pretty much negates the need for the old "pro" account. After a while of being dormant, I didn't see the benefit of continuing to pay for a pro account and I see no reason to pay $50 now for an ad-free experience when ABP (Ad Block Plus firefox plugin) is free and blocks all the ads in the first place. I prefer the finished layout of the new flickr to smugmug's portfolio account, which I was considering, at $80 annually, and I still wouldn't own my domain, so this new flickr is a pleasant and welcome surprise.

5 upvotes
skytripper

Your ad-blocking plugin may remove ads from your own computer screen, but not from the screens of those who view your galleries—which is what online photo galleries are all about in the first place.

2 upvotes
citrontokyo

When people ask somebody like me to take shots a pro should be taking, yeah, I'd agree the pro is a dying breed.

1 upvote
KodaChrome25

* crickets *

0 upvotes
MarceloSalup

Flickr has royally screwed up. Their landing page is unwieldy, can't be customized at all by the users and frankly, I'm not posting anything more until that is fixed.

2 upvotes
Franka T.L.

personally I think the biggest problem with that is the pricing model, if they elect to keep the $25 annual for unlimited storage for PRO account user, then they should offer that to others too. 50 for just being ad free is also an absurd one. And what's the difference of that between the $50 annual and the $500 annual, well 1 TB , that 1 TB seems over priced to me

3 upvotes
chj

or you could just pay nothing for 1 TB

1 upvote
Peter KT Lim

Yes ! She is right,there are no such thing 'Pro' photographer, nobody call us pro photographer,not even photographer, they call us CAMERA MAN. Who care so long peoples pay us money!

0 upvotes
whtchocla7e

She's young, she's pretty and she's right. Dream woman.

Comment edited 8 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
KAllen

Any pro daft enough to use Flikr deserves a comment like that.

4 upvotes
webrunner5

She is not far off from the truth. How many Pro photogs are left in your town? I know there is less than half in mine.

5 upvotes
skytripper

Those who agree with Marissa Mayer's idiotic comment have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Unbelievable!!!

3 upvotes
ManuelVilardeMacedo

You must live in a rather depressing town.

1 upvote
pierre1

http://gizmodo.com/5910223/how-yahoo-killed-flickr-and-lost-the-internet

0 upvotes
rallyfan

Is she the blonde with the big teeth in the photo on the DPR site? She's fit.

/thread

2 upvotes
changthai

At least flickr is moving..

2 upvotes
jcmarfilph

She maybe thinking how disgraceful it is for a PRO to shoot a wedding with a crappy iPhone. =D

1 upvote
ShadowVlican

Pro Photographers are a dying breed anyways. Nonetheless, the new flickr looks great

7 upvotes
Ubilam

They couldn't leave a good thing alone. Where have I heard this?

0 upvotes
tkbslc

what good thing? Flickr's been bleeding users for a while now.

2 upvotes
Ubilam

What do you mean? "Flickr's been bleeding users for a while now." It was free! Now its a hassle. If you gave them money for posting pics, you are foolish. Its all about advertising, dude.

0 upvotes
tkbslc

"Not a Professional? Don't you know who I am?!"

The feigned outrage over this issue is ridiculous.

11 upvotes
lenseye

This woman is an idiot with an ego the size of Florida! That's what you get when you put someone like that in charge of an organization that big! I'm surprised more stupidity doesn't flow out of her mouth! Her daycare comments fiasco is still talked about!

The only way you get to play at CEO level is by professionally kissing behinds! Obviously she excelled at that...

0 upvotes
tkbslc

Or it could be her master's from Stanford and 13 years at Google, including several vice president jobs.

I think I'd bet on her if you two had a battle of wits.

Comment edited 24 seconds after posting
15 upvotes
DenZ

Considering what she's done for Yahoo!, especially with Flickr, which had been neglected for many many years before she was appointed CEO, I would say Meyer's doing a darn good job. Yes, surprise! CEO's are people, too, and they're liable to saying things they shouldn't say or being misunderstood. We'd be living in a different world if people like Meyer are considered 'idiots'.

10 upvotes
chj

nevermind

Comment edited 4 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer

Almost all CEOs have incredibly impressive resumes. This proves is that you can be smart and make the same mistakes ordinary people do. The one area is which CEOs really do excel is in being in the right place at the right time. This is something they really have down.

0 upvotes
fyngyrz

What a tempest in a teapot. Her opinion of what's pro or not, or who is... completely irrelevant to my life.

What's important to me is that they get after what's actually lacking in flickr; management of sub categories within groups and favorites. Groups could be *so* much more than they ever have been.

Yeah, I pay the $25, and I'm going to keep paying it as it stands right now. Flickr's not perfect, but it's pretty darned good.

6 upvotes
mbloof

Actually the now defunct $25 a year account is more appealing then ether of the free, $50yr or $499yr accounts.

If they added in control of print sizes and pricing we'd have a real winner.

1 upvote
jase

If they added access controls by set/collection ie i can set it up so that only Mr Jones can see the Mr Jones portrait set and interfaced with a real printer such as Whitewall or Loxley Colour with a shopping basket and pricing control maybe.

0 upvotes
JackM

Hmm, ok, maybe she isn't so dumb...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marissa_Mayer

4 upvotes
Total comments: 228
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