mobile photography technology, culture and community
www.dpreview.com

Image Quality and Performance

With its dual-core Snapdragon processor and 2GB of RAM, the 1020 feels fast and smooth in general use. Windows Phone’s bold tiles glide nicely around the screen.

That’s the good news. The bad news is that when it comes to camera operation, the 1020 is sluggish compared to the competition. Whether using Nokia Pro Cam or the standard Windows Phone camera app, shot-to-shot time hovers around a glacial four seconds, long enough to leave many users frustrated. It’s fair to guess that this lag represents the enormous amount of sensor data the 1020 has to crunch for each shot, but that’s an explanation, not an excuse.

The Nokia's dual-core Snapdragon processor makes for smooth and snappy operation.

The fact that the 1020 can take a burst of 10 shots at a reasonable clip with the Smart Cam app hints at a possibility for better performance, but it’s likely that in that case the image data is dumped into an enormous buffer and then processed when the burst is complete. If the phone can’t chew while it’s cutting its next bite, there’s bound to be some lag that could only be addressed by intense computing horsepower.

So, you have to wait between shots. Unfortunately the Pro Cam isn’t too quick on the initial draw either, taking four to five seconds to launch (cold start or warm). Here, the standard Windows Phone app does better, kicking over in about two seconds.

Once you’ve got a capture app fired up, focus acquisition is competitive but not as snappy as the best. As usual, it’s a bit slower in low light, but accuracy is good: focus errors are very rare. In really low light (tripod territory) setting the manual focus to infinity is a good idea. 

Daylight, Low ISO

It’s a little hard to know how to judge the 1020’s image quality. To be clear, pixel peeping a 38-megapixel phone camera image is insane. At 300 dpi, it would print 24 inches (60 cm) wide. At the pixel density of a 40-inch HD TV, you’d need a screen nearly 11 feet wide (2.5 meters) to display the whole image at native resolution. Pixel-peeping a 38MP image is going to tell you something, but it won’t have much to do with real-world image quality. Of course, that won’t stop us from doing it.  

Then there’s the 5MP downsampled images. Is it fair to say that they contain less detail than the output of something like Samsung’s 13MP S4 when they’re really the distilled goodness of so much image data?

Despite concerns about fair apples-to-apples comparisons, it’s indisputable that the 1020 captures a phenomenal amount of detail in good light at low ISOs. Even at a 100% view on a screen, there’s a lot of usable detail at maximum resolution. The unzoomed, downsampled 5MP versions, while obviously containing less detail, look better than phone camera output studied at native resolution on screen usually does. Details are clean, clear and present, even in darker, low contrast areas that look smeary at the pixel level on most competitors. Nokia appears to apply a firm but judicious amount of sharpening to the 5MP file so that edges are crisp, but not overly so.

High-resolution mode, ISO 100
While the 1020’s lens is sharp across most of the frame, the corners are soft. This is exaggerated in 16:9 and high resolution mode, but in most real-world situations it’s not a problem.
5MP mode, ISO 100
100% crop
100% crop

Noise is well controlled, even in the full-res files. What little appears there gets largely averaged out in the 5MP output, which is of course the point. Even in areas of smooth, darker tone, the 1020 delivers an impressive performance.

Colors are fairly accurate, though Nokia juices up saturation a bit to give photos that extra “pop” that we’ve come to expect from phone cam images (a saturation control would be a nice addition to Pro Cam). Automatic white balance accuracy is good, though it runs a little cool in the shade. 

While the 1020’s combination of high resolution and larger sensor make great strides in some image quality metrics, dynamic range does not appear to be much better than the competition. From a technical perspective this makes sense. It’s the size of the individual photosites, rather than that of the sensor as a whole, that has the biggest impact on the ability to record wide dynamic range (the difference between the brightest and darkest parts of the scene). Because of the 1020’s high pixel count, the photosites are no bigger than on most phones. As that fact predicts, the 1020 appears to blow out highlights about as much anything else on the market. It’s worth noting that because of the 1020’s low noise output, you can get away with underexposing more to protect highlights and then brightening dark areas in postprocessing.

The 1020’s lens is sharp across most of the frame, but the unforgiving resolution showcases some poor corner sharpness. This is still visible, though less insulting, in the 5MP files.

5MP mode, ISO 100
The 1020 captures an astounding amount of detail and does well with the difficult task of preserving darker, low contrast detail in distant foliage.
100% crop
5MP mode, ISO 100
The 1020 does a nice job with skin tones in sunlight.
100% crop
5MP mode, ISO 100
The 1020’s restricted dynamic range, largely a consequence of photosite size, is on par with the competition and no better.
100% crop
High-resolution mode, ISO 100
Even in its high-res mode the 1020 delivers impressively low noise at base ISO,  even on the torture test of a deep blue sky.
100% crop

Low Light, High ISO

With its big sensor and fast, image stabilized lens, the 1020 does very well in low light conditions: it’s currently the best phone for low-light photography on the market.

The 1020’s optical image stabilization means that you can avoid shake-induced blur at much lower shutter speeds than on most phones. For most competitors, speeds at or below 1/15 sec are flirting with blur, and speeds below 1/6 sec or so pretty much guarantee it. The 1020’s image stabilized lens soaks up hand movement to make 1/6 sec routinely usable and speeds as low as a 1/2 sec give good results with a solid shooting position, at least when shooting static scenes. This lets you keep ISO lower for better image quality (for a given phone, a scene that requires a 1/15 sec exposure at ISO 800 could be shot at ISO 100 at 1/2 sec), or simply shoot in lower light conditions than would otherwise be possible.

At ISO 400 and full resolution, it’s clear that detail is being lost ...
... but there's not much to indicate that ISO is creeping upwards even at 100% view on the 5MP file. 
100% crop
100% crop

Image stabilization helps with hand shake, but not subject movement. For that, only higher shutter speeds will do, and that means higher ISOs. The 1020 will usually have you covered, with a manual ISO range that spans from 100 to 3200 (on auto, it hits a stratospheric 4000). Such rarified sensitivities aren’t unusual in phones today, but on the 1020, ISO 3200 is actually usable for web resolution output. At 1600 and below, the 1020 turns in a remarkable performance.

5MP mode, ISO 200
Here we’ve set ISO to 200, forcing the 1020 use a very long shutter speed of 1/2 sec. This keeps noise low, and thanks to the optical image stabilization, the image is tack sharp.
100% crop
5MP mode, ISO 250
Noise is virtually unnoticeable at ISO 250 in the 5MP version of this shot. 
100% crop
5MP mode, ISO 800
At ISO 800, noise remains under control and there’s still plenty of detail to go around in the 5MP version.
100% crop
5MP mode, ISO 3200
It has to be pretty dark before you need ISO 3200 with an F2.2 lens, but this shadowy food shot was an extreme case. At web and screen resolutions, the 5MP file still looks good, with noise in dark areas under control and barely a hint of banding. 
100% crop
5MP mode, ISO 1600
At ISO 1600, the 5MP image still looks very good at screen resolution and even zoomed in, and there’s real detail at the pixel level in the hi-res file, though it’s being steeply eroded by noise.
100% crop
5MP mode, ISO 4000
How low can the 1020 go? Auto exposure hits ISO 4000 and 1/3 sec exposure time to capture this moonlight scene. It’s underexposed, but this is still an impressive performance at these infinitesimal light levels.
100% crop

Zoom Image Quality

Nokia takes advantage of its big, high-res sensor to offer a true novelty: a digital zoom that doesn’t suck. A “digital zoom” traditionally means cropping the image and then upsampling it to the camera’s native resolution. Since you can’t create image data from thin air, heavy upsampling results in the soft, detail-impoverished images we’ve come to expect from digital zooming. The 1020’s high native resolution means that even with some cropping (zoom) applied, the image is still downsampled through most of the zoom range. You get a 2.7X zoom ratio (a 74mm equivalent in 4:3 mode) before the cropped image hits 5MP. The same digital zoom ratio on an 8MP camera results in a 1MP image being blown back up, with predictably underwhelming results. 

In the example above, we see the Lumia 1020 zoomed in to its maximum digital magnification. 
In this example we see an iPhone 5 zoomed in to provide a roughly equivalent field of view. In the 100% crops below, it’s clear how much more detail the 1020 retains during digital zooming.
100% crop
100% crop

In good light, quality drops off relatively little when zooming, thanks to the 1020’s solid low ISO performance. With a moderate zoom setting, the loss is negligible. At full zoom, when you’re getting un-oversampled output from the sensor, the quality remains good but noise is definitely more present. 

At higher ISOs, image quality drops more as the 1020 doesn’t get to average out noise in the downsampling process. That said, at ISO 800, even at full zoom, image quality remains quite steady at screen resolutions: you have to get down to pixel level to see how more noise is cutting down on detail.

Our verdict is that while the zoom isn’t quite “lossless,” we wouldn’t hesitate to use it under most any lighting condition. Plus, if you’re saving the full-res file as well, you can always get back to the original, unzoomed image.      

Flash

The 1020 is one of very few phones with a xenon strobe flash similar to what you’d find on a dedicated camera. Compared to the LED flashes on most phones, the 1020’s strobe is a powerhouse, providing bright, even lighting for relatively close subjects. If you take a lot of flash-lit people-shots at bars and parties, you’ll be impressed with how much the 1020’s output looks like that of a “real camera.” Because of the brief light pulse a xenon flash delivers, it can also help freeze action at lower shutter speeds.

The 1020 delivers nice skin tones and even lighting in this typical low-light people shot.
Here the flash doesn’t have the juice to fully illuminate more distant (about 6 feet away) subjects. The phone held ISO at a conservative 200 — raising it higher would extend the flash’s functional range.

While the flash is excellent by phone standards, it’s doesn’t have the oomph to light more distant group shots, and certainly not whole rooms. In addition to full auto mode, you can disable the flash and focus light entirely, or just kill the flash, leaving the focus light (an LED) active. Exposure compensation in Pro Cam doesn’t seem to impact flash exposure.

Comments

Total comments: 355
12
Vladik
By Vladik (1 month ago)

I downsized 1020 file to 13mp and S4 still stumps all over that image. Very disappointing. What is the point of packing all those pixel, I dont get it. Why not just make excellent 8 or 10 MP sensor with superior JPG engine, that stumps over all other cameras. I have 1520 and the camera produces rather disappointing results as well.

0 upvotes
Just another Canon shooter
By Just another Canon shooter (3 months ago)

"The “digital zoom” feature on most phones is generally a disappointing alternative. - Nokia changed that with the 808’s downsampling zoom, ..."

They did not. It is exactly the same thing, digital zoom, but with a higher pixel density. DPR should stop repeating that marketing nonsense.

0 upvotes
DHJen
By DHJen (6 months ago)

Great camera with a embedded mobile phone.

0 upvotes
gerogesteam
By gerogesteam (6 months ago)

I just purchased phone and there is a very noticeable internal lens flaw, that shows up on all photographs. The camera is amazing when it worked properly, low light is fantastic, (you forget it is a phone) but caution.. Look for lens flaw (take pictures in different lighting situations) and KNOW your carriers replacement policy, as my carrier wants to give me a refurb unit only 18 days after purchase on a Manufactures Defect.

0 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (6 months ago)

yup, also check for soft right hand or left hand sides of image when capturing at full resolution! landscapes where focus is infinite. It is a design fault which not too many people know about

http://imageshack.us/a/img826/5026/sagn.jpg

Comment edited 25 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Unstoppable36SG
By Unstoppable36SG (6 months ago)

How many 808's do have this issue? From my experience, the blur/soft in the right part of the image increases in hot days/when the device is hot.

Can you please explain more of this problem? I'm very interested, and I want to know as much as I can . Thanks :)

0 upvotes
massimogori
By massimogori (6 months ago)

You and DXO people have really to find an agreement. From one side you are ready to make free advertisements by publishing a set of average photos given to you by Nokia. From the other side DXO people puts the phone down in comparison with the much less photo oriented samsung S4.

Communication is of the essence!

Comment edited 33 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Zlik
By Zlik (6 months ago)

The video stabilization score is somehow surprising. A low 49 with hardware stabilizaion? And the iphone 5s has 54 ?

Having used and seen what the stability of the lumia 920 in video, I am a little perlpexed.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
Tom May
By Tom May (6 months ago)

In the "Cons" under the video tests:

Walking movements remain uncorrected by the video stabilization

Over-correction of video stabilization when steadied (on a tripod).

0 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (6 months ago)

Do you need 41 megapixels? DXOMark says nah !!!!!

5 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (6 months ago)

40MP at least

0 upvotes
vv50
By vv50 (6 months ago)

"DxOMark found the Nokia Lumia 1020 Apple iPhone 5s' exposure and color reproduction to be good." - someone needs to proofread this again. there are also lines where it mentions iPhone instead of 1020. the autofocus section even has a bullet point with no text

0 upvotes
jcmarfilph
By jcmarfilph (6 months ago)

Talk about recycling with random minuses and pluses. It just happened the iPhone5s has more random pluses. =D

0 upvotes
jcmarfilph
By jcmarfilph (6 months ago)

Non-sense!

How can they rate a iPone5s with sub-par/mediocre sensor higher than this one. Only an idiot will believe in this DXOcrap mark. Do a side-by-side comparison between the two and post here the results (not just a useless numbers) and you will see that this camera will stomp iPhone5s in any department.

2 upvotes
Tom May
By Tom May (6 months ago)

How?

A good implementation of a lesser sensor wins against a bad implementation of a better sensor in Dx0's test of still images and video.

Perhaps you should direct your ire at Nokia for screwing up the WP implementation of the 1020, seeing as though the Pureview 808 came out on top in the same test, and fairly so.

4 upvotes
KAMSA
By KAMSA (6 months ago)

Brp, That's a Ca-get don't think it will replace any DSLR

Iknd reg.

0 upvotes
netrex
By netrex (7 months ago)

Is there really no way of adjusting contrast, sharpening and color saturation? That is a big fail IMO. I use the 808 a lot, and when I use the full resolution, I have those turned all the way or almost all the way down.

I don't understand why they would do this, even in the Pro Cam app? It's very strange.

2 upvotes
swestphotos
By swestphotos (4 months ago)

You can edit it with Nokia's Creative Studio app, and it's quite nice, not to mention there are tons of other apps which get integrated into the "edit" option so it's pretty quick to get to each app as well.

0 upvotes
stupidus
By stupidus (7 months ago)

Balanced review, IMHO.

Satisfying compromise between pocketability, usability (with camera grip/extra battery add-on) and aesthetically pleasing design (all the way from the exterior to the OS's UI).

The going rate for Lumia 1020 is $610 (was $800).

Seems to me like already pretty sweet deal is getting sweeter fast (particularly or hopefully when some software issues, ie. picture-to-picture lag, will be resolved later on).

One thing that I don't quite understand though is some folks' logic. If 1020 doesn't sell well, it will become another niche product just like 808.

Saying you'll rather wait for the next iteration is the same as not wanting 1020 to succeed. The fewer buyers, the greater chance that 2nd iteration will never even happen. It really is that simple.

There are no perfect products and never will be. The only way to support _better_ innovation is to buy those products you see the most _potential_ in - _now_, not next year.

If I'd afford 1020, I'd buy it ASAP.

1 upvote
bawboh86
By bawboh86 (7 months ago)

I picked on up for the exact reasons you point out (that, and I'm a photographer that goes on runs a lot, and my last phone's camera just didn't cut it).

0 upvotes
WalterSanders
By WalterSanders (7 months ago)

I use a wifi card in either a RX-100 (1" sensor) or my Nikon DSLR.
Jpeg pictures are instantly loaded to my smartphone.
Don't see much need for processing zoom this way, but, its fascinating what can and will be done.
I'll wait for 2nd generation.

0 upvotes
CaptureAll
By CaptureAll (7 months ago)

41MP, I barely even need 12MP on my dSLR.

Why not make improvements on the shot-to-shot times (easy when 5 to 8MP is plenty of info to use. How much resolution does your monitor display? Lets be honest, how often do you print? When you do, how often above 5x7 do you go? 10 years ago I used a Nikon 5700 which has 5MP to make great 13x19 photos via a Canon S9000 printer. The prints are still on the wall today and I always get comments. The MP marketing is winning it seems.

How about a faster lens, say f/1.8 and faster shutter speeds? Also, make it a sharper lens, ie; in the corners.

Then you'd have something more functional and reasonable.

2 upvotes
Kivivuori
By Kivivuori (7 months ago)

Isn`t 1/16 000 s fast enough ?

2 upvotes
mabasa
By mabasa (7 months ago)

Cropping and downsampling. You would know if you read the article first.

2 upvotes
Marcus gwise
By Marcus gwise (7 months ago)

No not really
i was let down bye the look of the 1020
i love my Nokia 925
i think. Its the best smartphone,the whole phone just. So smooth

0 upvotes
Arquetipo
By Arquetipo (7 months ago)

Check the new promo for the 1020, the samples, the satire, and the pretty darn good "digital zoom"

http://tinyurl.com/nxbzyob

0 upvotes
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (7 months ago)

Microsoft just wasted money...

$7.2 BILLION

Bought NOKIA just now...

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2013/Sep13/09-02AnnouncementPR.aspx

.

2 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (7 months ago)

Microsoft is wasted money !!

2 upvotes
Virvatulet
By Virvatulet (7 months ago)

There is a wide spread consensus that the offered price was far too low, emphasizing Stephen Elop's questionable role in this transaction.
We'll see how the EGM shall cast their vote; the deal is anything but certain.

4 upvotes
Savengance
By Savengance (7 months ago)

They did not waste money actually, they have 3 percent of the market share in the United States however that is not what they are concerned with. They are going overseas to India where there are over 900 million people who own cell phones and only 6 million of them have smart phones. Nokia has ( or had since they're part of Microsoft now) a significant market share over there. Most of the people there have basic phones that are of poor quality, Microsoft is about to break into that huge market.

1 upvote
Petrogel
By Petrogel (7 months ago)

I don't think Microsoft wasted money on Nokia (IMHO Nokia is the big loser of the deal) either, but having 3,5% of market share the first half of 2013 and AT&T holding Nokia's sales (AT&T IS Nokia's exclusive partner in U.S), Microsoft will need some more manufacturers to spread the O.S(in U.S), or else wp8 don't stand much chance .
Microsoft wanted a hardware store and got it (Nokia) for 5+ billion euros .
What i think Microsoft is trying to do (among others) (with this purchase) is to establish herself in European market dragging American market share.
In India is settled one of Nokia's biggest production lines
(in Chennai) (being very popular as well) but even that couldn't hold the Nokia's World Wide market share fall from 23,4% 4Q 2011 to 18% 4Q 2012

0 upvotes
meanwhile
By meanwhile (7 months ago)

And now we see why this is running Windows. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23940171

2 upvotes
Stu 5
By Stu 5 (7 months ago)

Noikasoft

0 upvotes
Torgrims
By Torgrims (7 months ago)

Thanks for a great review! Its a definitive buy for me, just hope its released in Europe soon (next week?).

1 upvote
brdeveloper
By brdeveloper (7 months ago)

What's wrong with a thicker phone with a larger sensor? An 808 with an OIS would be perfect to me.

Comment edited 14 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
vv50
By vv50 (7 months ago)

would you still think OIS on 808 is perfect if adding it shrank the aperture, doubled the cost and halved the battery life?

0 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

Yes true, but also we have to consider the imaging processor. Although the 808 does have the larger sensor higher signal to noise, alot of the final image output is heavily dependent on the image processor. Since the 1020 has a software image processor, there is hope that a firmware update may fix alot of the issues of noise, and poor texture detail at low ISO

1 upvote
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (7 months ago)

Lumia 1020 didn't double the cost nor did it cut the battery life in half. Speculation trolling is funny though!

1 upvote
dpfan32
By dpfan32 (7 months ago)

I've shot thousands of photos with my 808 nad this one is no replacement for the good old PureView 808. Sorry: OS is great but the camera is not.

1 upvote
vv50
By vv50 (7 months ago)

that's because you don't value video

1 upvote
Petrogel
By Petrogel (7 months ago)

Or maybe he has acute eyesight !!!

3 upvotes
Cam Jones
By Cam Jones (7 months ago)

I've been reading all these 808 vs. 1020 comments and it's hilarious to see all the 808 owners (including those who never even owned one) refuse to let their old phone die.
I viewed the photo samples shot by the new 1020 and to be honest, I don't understand what the 808 supporters are crying about. I'm a die-hard iPhone user (since iPhone1) and the 1020 sample images are stunning. But then I have a high-resolution 27-inch monitor w/ a professional graphics board. Maybe I'm seeing something the 1020 bashers are not?

Anyway, this all sounds like the old Laser Disc vs. DVD Which-format-is-better Wars. In this case, the 808 supporters are like the LaserDisc fanatics who simply refuses to accept the fact that DVD technology has surpassed their beloved LD (i.e., Nokia 808). LoL. And these people still stubbornly insist their old laser discs are still much better than even Blu-Ray.
Time to throw away the old Nokia phones. What you perceive as something better is just that -- perception.

3 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

@ Cam Jones

Please check other sites which have compared the 808 to the 1020, then you will understand what are we talking about, especially if you view side by side comparisons on your 27" monitor.

Comparing the 808 to the 1020 is a close match, where the 808 will come out on top in bright light and low ISO scenes, and the 1020 will be on top for high ISO scenes. Sadly no iPhone to date gets even close to the performance of the 1020 or the 808.

I do not think your analogy of the laser disc and the DVD is a good correlation to the 808 and the 1020. I would say comparing beta max and VHS as being a better correlation, where the 808 is the beta max, and the 1020 is VHS. The 808 does have better pixel IQ, natural edge and textural detail at low ISO. The 1020 is good, but not as good as the 808, but has much better marketing, plus has extra new technological features like optical stabilization, up to date OS, and slimmer modern formfactor.

3 upvotes
Dominick101
By Dominick101 (7 months ago)

Well said! The iPhone users will never understand what is IQ, 808 vs 1020, because even a Samsung beats them. Anything higher is just bonus?

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (7 months ago)

"Well said! The iPhone users will never understand what is IQ, 808 vs 1020, because even a Samsung beats them. Anything higher is just bonus?"

Exactly. Even the GS4 is substantially better, IQ-wise, than the iPhone 5, let alone the 808...

1 upvote
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (7 months ago)

You forget always my, I mean Nokia N8
:-(

0 upvotes
theranman
By theranman (7 months ago)

TOTALLY sucks that Nokia went with a smaller sensor for this camera phone. Totally.

4 upvotes
vv50
By vv50 (7 months ago)

scaling technology is a progressive effort. otherwise you'd have OIS and pin sharp 28-300mm f/1.4 lenses in every phone.

1 upvote
Overdrive
By Overdrive (7 months ago)

Disappointed in 1020, I had high hopes that Nokia would improve or at least properly port 808's camera into a WP platform. But instead they put a smaller sensor and applied their awful WP algorithms. Not to mention no microSD card slot.

1020 does not produce pleasant images. And that's the bottom line. Its images look very over processed, too sharpened, too grainy and noisy.

Compared to 808, it's like something like a turbo 4 cylinder vs a naturally aspirated V8. 1020 is trying too hard and using all the tricks to look comparable to 808, but it does not compare.

Symbian is a dead platform, but a fact is a fact, there is a phone out there that beats 1020 in IQ, and no matter how many excuses you make, it'll stay a fact. And knowing that, it's hard to shell out €700+ for a camera centric phone knowing it's not the absolute best there is. 1020 feels like a compromise.

As for WP, it's better than Symbian but it would still be a OS(iOS as main) for me, so makes no difference.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
7 upvotes
vv50
By vv50 (7 months ago)

just for thought, every feature is a compromise. if you don't think OIS is important then you'll prefer the 808. among many other considerations.

0 upvotes
wakaba
By wakaba (7 months ago)

Usability of WP on Nokia plattform is handsdown best for everyday. All apps are available. Not too much junk clogging the marketplace. Add great pic quality since the 920 .
Sharing and social media support is way better than ios/and. Charging without plugin is an absolute killer feature. Changing to any iphone would be a massive downgrade.

3 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

@ wakaba

The 1020 requires an accessory to be attached in order to have wireless charging. Currently the best phone camera with wireless charging built in is the 920

1 upvote
swestphotos
By swestphotos (4 months ago)

"1020 does not produce pleasant images. And that's the bottom line. Its images look very over processed, too sharpened, too grainy and noisy."

What the heck are you talking about?!?! Looks pretty great to me... you must have some standards so high that no one can reach them.

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (7 months ago)

diagonals of 4:3 and 16:9 are the same (< 1% error).

weird expression but 27mm and 25mm equiv.
might be horizontal AOVs for 4:3 and 16:9 frames
against 35mm format (3:2).

also, at 1.1 micron pitch per spec,
the total area is less than 90% of a standard 2/3",
and the focal length about 5.9mm.

0 upvotes
Gryfster
By Gryfster (7 months ago)

The scoring methodology has completely changed. Are the old scores from previous phones comparable?

0 upvotes
Charlie Jin
By Charlie Jin (7 months ago)

41M pixel makes my photos unusable. I never needed over 8M for my phone camera.

0 upvotes
Stevan G
By Stevan G (7 months ago)

the point of 41MP on mobile phone is (mainly) in oversampling, which is sadly not present in this device...

2 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (7 months ago)

> 41M pixel makes my photos unusable

what's in 8MP that is not in 41MP?

0 upvotes
mythdat
By mythdat (7 months ago)

Then just use the 5MP mode?

0 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

The 41mp on the 1020 is designed for lossless zoom. Even when not zooming, image size can still be set at 5mp derived from an over-sampled "higher quality" image

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (7 months ago)

pixel count doesn't necessarily affect image quality but high pixel count is a better way than an optical extender for the reach (an optical solution won't be better if it doesn't come with larger aperture).

0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (7 months ago)

"the point of 41MP on mobile phone is (mainly) in oversampling, which is sadly not present in this device..."

It IS present. It just uses a somewhat less sophisticated algorithm than the 808.

1 upvote
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

@ Menneisyys

agree, but lets give Nokia a chance to update their software image processor, which hopefully will resolve this not so clean 5mp pureview images. Also lets hope Nokia gives the option to "Turn Off" the saturation and edge sharpening.

1 upvote
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (7 months ago)

A complete video shootout? (720, 1080)

2 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (7 months ago)

Yes, just like the Samsung S4 !!

2 upvotes
blue hour
By blue hour (7 months ago)

I'd rather use messenger pigeons instead
than to buy a phone with a non-removable battery.

5 upvotes
suprjeff
By suprjeff (7 months ago)

mine is last about 30 hrs. on a charge, try that with your iphone.

2 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (7 months ago)

Are there pigeons with removable battery ?

8 upvotes
Stevan G
By Stevan G (7 months ago)

yupp there are, but their back is more prone to falling off when hitting ground

0 upvotes
Stoli89
By Stoli89 (7 months ago)

Actually, Nokia's hardware designs, even for those with sealed batteries, allow for maintenance access without the risk of physical deformation of materials (i.e. HTC One's sealed/pressed construction). My venerable N8's battery is also sealed. I can easily change it out in 2 minutes with a T5 torx and the loosening of 2 small screws.

1 upvote
Photato
By Photato (7 months ago)

Good quality but slow.
Bigger pixels would have made this camera/phone unbeatable.
Kind of understand the notion of zoom/crop. A 10MP count should have been better.

Still good job Nokia!

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
Stoli89
By Stoli89 (7 months ago)

Then you misunderstood the purpose of oversampling. At 5MP, the virtual pixels are 3.2 microns in size. As you zoom, those virtual pixels get smaller until, at full zoom, the virtual pixels are the same size as the physical pixels. You can set the phone to only take the default 5MP photos, which really benefit from the oversampling. As well, the shots are much quicker when full rez is deselected. To note, the 5MP photos take up a frugal ~1MB of storage each. A 10MP sensor without oversampling would not be capable of loss-less zoom. In other words, at full zoom (~3x) the resolution would be significantly reduced due to conventional cropping.

Comment edited 29 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (7 months ago)

bigger pixels would have made this camera/phone less valuable for lower resolution at no benefit, maybe worse image quality.

1 upvote
ozgoldman
By ozgoldman (8 months ago)

The problem with mobile phone cameras is they are almost all set on auto. I have used my wife's 41mp. mob phone and found even the focus to be a little 'wild'.
They are not for me. I'll stick to the A77 thanks.

1 upvote
Stoli89
By Stoli89 (7 months ago)

What? troll.

1 upvote
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

with larger sensors in cameras, the depth of field may be narrower, and hence the AF must be aquired with a bit of care, otherwise undesirable non focused images can result

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (7 months ago)

the depth of field have absolutely nothing to do with pixel size because the definition of which refers to the frame, not pixel (often circle of confusion = 1/1300 of diagonal but other numbers can also be used depending on the application, not the camera).

Comment edited 45 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

@yabokkie If I am not wrong, the question was about why ozgoldman wifes phone has issues with Autofocus. The title 41mp mob refers to probably the Nokia 808 or the 1020, as both these have 41MP. Some people refer to the 808 or the 1020 as just "41mp phone"

2 upvotes
makofoto
By makofoto (6 months ago)

iPhone = Touch Focus & Xposure

0 upvotes
swestphotos
By swestphotos (4 months ago)

Oh really how it the focus wild? You can touch to focus... also you can use manual mode on the 1020... I think you have been smoking something rotten.

0 upvotes
Wye Photography
By Wye Photography (8 months ago)

No. Six will do for most

0 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (8 months ago)

"Do you need 41mp?"

Sure, if the image quality looks good and not all mushed up from too much NR or noise or bad optics.

C

2 upvotes
ET2
By ET2 (8 months ago)

Funny coming from a guy who was constantly claiming "less pixels are better" Now you understand that they are not. You can downsample larger MP images and get same or better image quality. This isn't rocket science.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
7 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (7 months ago)

And the IQ on this sensor is garbage, so what exactly is your point? So far less is more, the way I see it.

3 upvotes
tbcass
By tbcass (7 months ago)

The effective resolution is 5mp at most so the 41mp are completely wasted. It's just an advertising gimmick.

1 upvote
swestphotos
By swestphotos (4 months ago)

That's funny how people call the 1020 IQ garbage when it's in the top 3. Sorry but, just because video brings the score down, the tests show it just below the 808. So it's the 2nd best IQ phone tied with s4...

but you call it garbage. I guess we should just throw out all those tests then lol

0 upvotes
bb42
By bb42 (8 months ago)

For owners of "real" i.e. pure-foto digicams the question is if the hires sensor delivers more detail than a current digicam of similar price.
Too bad that this question is (again) not answered.

0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

You can easily check this by checking out the double-density ISO 12233 chart parts in the center. They certainly show the lens being able to resolve around 21 Mpixels.

Full 38 Mpixel images (DPReview shoots 4:3 for their mobile studio scene), the horizontal lines can be counted up to around 41, which means the effective resolution is around 38*4100/7136 = 21 Mpixels. (Somewhat less than the maximal theoretical resolution of 38 Mpixel but still excellent for Bayer sensor and a lens this small.). A crop showing this:

flickr.com/photos/33448355@N07/9355200115/sizes/o/in/set-72157634746470479/

(source: connect.dpreview.com/post/1305711237/lumia-1020?page=2 )

5 Mpixel images, on the other hand, have clearly less detail than those of even the iPhone 5, let alone the GS4. (Also note how bad the Nokia 920 is.) The latter two simply deliver better effective resolution, at least with “artificial” subjects likre rescharts:

(contd. below)

4 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

flickr.com/photos/33448355@N07/9355200279/sizes/o/in/set-72157634746470479/

(source: connect.dpreview.com/post/1305711237/lumia-1020?page=3 )

Now, this seeming inferiority can be caused by the strong oversharpening, resulting in false detail in sections over the Nyquist frequency? It must be. The false detail seems to be the single most important problem with Nokia’s algorithm. (More natural scenes are rendered far better; according to DPReview (too), they are better than those of even the GS4.) They should use some kind of digital high-pass filter not to let false detail ruin areas like these. (There shouldn’t be any detail over the Nyquist frequency, that is, with an 5 Mpixel 4:3 (=2592*1936) image, over the 25.9 mark. Everything you see there is false detail.)

Finally, low light: the Nokia 1020 smashes the competition:

2 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

(continued from above)

flickr.com/photos/33448355@N07/9357973914/sizes/o/in/set-72157634746470479/

(5 Mpixel. Unfortunately, no full-res low-light studio scene shot available. Source: connect.dpreview.com/post/1305711237/lumia-1020?page=4 )

Note that the false detail present in the daylight shot (see previous crop) is much less pronounced here. That is, you’re unlikely to see false detail on low-light 5 Mpixel shots.

NOTE: as far as a resolution comparison to the 808 is concerned, unfortunately, these results can’t really be compared to that of the 808 review as the latter only uses DPReview’s default scene (see dpreview.com/articles/8083837371/review-nokia-808-pureview/3 ) but not the usual resolution chart test.

0 upvotes
stevenkelby
By stevenkelby (8 months ago)

"5 Mpixel images, on the other hand, have clearly less detail than those of even the iPhone 5, let alone the GS4."

1020 takes much worse pics than any compact.

Plus 4 seconds to start the camera app, and 4 seconds shot to shot.

No thanks.

3 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

"1020 takes much worse pics than any compact."

In the not-very-good 5 Mpixel mode, yes. In the full-res one, definitely not. You will NOT show me ANY compact with such detail level and true resolution in 80% of the 16:9 frame. After all, the true (!!) resolution of this thing, as I've shown above, is around 21 Mpixels. Not even the RX100 (Mk II) is capable of that...

8 upvotes
Lars Rehm
By Lars Rehm (8 months ago)

you focus too much on resolution. It's important yes but from a phone you're likely to share your pics online and for that purpose 5MP is more than enough. However, thanks to its clever downsampling algorithms and very efficient OIS it is very good in low light. You can still take pictures when all you get on some other phones is a pixelated mess.

1 upvote
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

"you focus too much on resolution."

The original poster asked about it - this is why I've elaborated on it :)

"It's important yes but from a phone you're likely to share your pics online and for that purpose 5MP is more than enough. "

Yup, but, still, the dowsampling algorithm seems to be a bit weak because it introduces false detail. At least under good light. That is, if one wants to have the best possible results, he / she must allow for saving the original-Mpixel image and do the downsampling on the desktop (or another downsampler) which uses a superior downsampler algorithm.

0 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

@ Menneisyys

You may want to see the results from comparing the Sony RX100 vs RX100 ii using "imaging resources" image comparitor. I have noticed that the false detail you mention seems to creep in on the RX100 ii especially on high contrast edges. To me the older RX100 image pixel IQ is better. This can be no coincidence that the RX100 ii uses a 1" BSI sensor and the older RX100 uses a 1" FSI sensor.

1 upvote
Arquetipo
By Arquetipo (8 months ago)

The only way to understand the 1020's 41mp is by carefully reading DP and other technical reviews, and for all explanations and image comparisons, it makes a lot of sense. Great 5mp pictures, "a digital zoom that does not suck", image stabilization, and great low-light pictures make this cam-phone the best one. And unless there is an iOS or Android app exclusive of these OS you cannot live with, WP8 is an excellent alternative. I will definitively get one once the unlocked versions drop in price.

4 upvotes
FoveonPureView
By FoveonPureView (8 months ago)

The only affordable (for average folks) alternative to the Nokia 808 or this slightly (purely image quality-wise) less-performing 1020 would be the Sigma-Foveon-cameras.

5 upvotes
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (7 months ago)

Any day now when your Fovean learns to make phone calls, etc. If there even a WiFi based web browser? e-mail? Twitter? Facebook? Any clone version would be fine . It doesn't have to be an original version as long as it works!
SMS? Something?!
No?
THEN I wish that someone would put a larger lens and Foveon sensor on a phone!!

0 upvotes
Digitall
By Digitall (8 months ago)

No I don't need 41mp camera, I need less noise, a clean image, a better IQ with a good optical image stabilization for sure. More sensor size than pixels.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
3 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (8 months ago)

If the question is, if you need 41mp on your phone, the answer is NO !! as long as you have better lens, (than the one this Nokia is equipped with), as for the low light conditions bad is good only when compared to the worst

2 upvotes
Digital Suicide
By Digital Suicide (8 months ago)

How was with 808 camera start up times? Was it faster?

1 upvote
pkilpo
By pkilpo (8 months ago)

I have 808 and I tried to test it, seems to have 1-2sec lag between shots and startup time 3sec. It varies a little sometimes. Maybe it is faster because 808 has dedicated signal processor for images and 1020 uses it's "normal" processor.
Here is it's review: http://connect.dpreview.com/post/4388245494/nokia-808-pureview-review

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Stoli89
By Stoli89 (7 months ago)

Yes, the 808 sports a dedicated scaling chip for the camera. It also is defaulted to 5MP only. If you select full resolution, it also takes longer to process. IMO, the 1020 should've been set to 5MP only (as default) and have left the dual mode with additional full rez as an option. I think this would've avoided the issue for the most part. However, the "New Way to Zoom" marketing campaign heavily promoted the post shot zoom capability. I suspect the engineers were forced to keep the default in dual mode for this reason.

1 upvote
Gryfster
By Gryfster (7 months ago)

But not as long as the Lumia 1020. The shot to shot time on the current firmware is too long. Hopefully, they can improve it. Also the 808 has te option to capture 8MP pictures which I think is the perfect size.

1 upvote
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (7 months ago)

Compare the Lumia 1020 with 5Mpx-only mode to Nokia 808 in the defaul=same mode.
Then in 38Mpx-only both. Compare...
There you go!
It could be that the either the flash or the memory channels are too slow even for the modern phone-class Chips to save the images fast enough.
Lumia 1020 by default takes two pictures and does CPU-based downsampling to 5Mpx and then saves both to the internal Flash. More work, more time needed.

0 upvotes
panoviews
By panoviews (8 months ago)

I would buy one, but only with the Android OS.

5 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (8 months ago)

Don't bother to buy one, chromatic aberration at the corners, doesn't get better with the O.S

5 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

"Don't bother to buy one, chromatic aberration at the corners, doesn't get better with the O.S"

Oh no, you again... :)

Let me point out again and again that the lens softness only affects the left/rightmost 10% of the frame. The remaining 80% is tack sharp.

That is, don't spread false propaganda. While the 1020 has its share of problems, it's in no way a bad camera. IQ-wise, particularly if you stick with the hi-res mode and do any kind of downsampling on the desktop, it's certainly MUCH better than any else smartphone camera out there.

Comment edited 36 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (8 months ago)

Don't tell me you're not happy to see me again ;-)

The lens does NOT fit the camera and that is OBVIOUS , it is not only 10% but a lot more (more than 20%) (and you can check that from the photos taking for the national geographic -look at the color fall off at the hat of dude in the picture-)
Do you know what is false propaganda in here ?
All the commentators that joined today (31 of August ) to comment today the superiority of this phone ( that is typical Nokian fan guided tactics, that is what happened last year with 808 pureview as well, That is Propaganda )
About this phone-camera is good compared among phones and thats all, (some stupids last year hastened to compare it to Canon 5D or even Nikon D800), as for what you pay and what you get you better buy yourself a 300$ point and shoot camera and you'll get better Image Quality than this ...... thing !!!!!

P.S Nice talking to you again !

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
3 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

"The lens does NOT fit the camera and that is OBVIOUS , it is not only 10% but a lot more (more than 20%) (and you can check that from the photos taking for the national geographic -look at the color fall off at the hat of dude in the picture-)"

The picture at http://connect.dpreview.com/files/p/cms_posts/5588168824/natgeo3.jpg is almost unusable to properly evaluate lens sharpness as it's marred by NR. I'd say the color smear is caused by the NR and in no way the lens blur in the left/rightmost 10% of the frame.

I've evaluated a lot of, technically, far better images with far lower NR. All of them exhibited the same lens blur in the left/rightmost 10% of the frame in 16:9 and 6% in 4:3 mode.

Feel free to show me images that can really be evaluated (aren't marred by NR this bad) and show a much larger region of serious lens blur. (Except for early samples, of course.)

Comment edited 55 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

"All the commentators that joined today (31 of August ) to comment today the superiority of this phone ( that is typical Nokian fan guided tactics, that is what happened last year with 808 pureview as well, That is Propaganda )
About this phone-camera is good compared among phones and thats all, (some stupids last year hastened to compare it to Canon 5D or even Nikon D800), as for what you pay and what you get you better buy yourself a 300$ point and shoot camera and you'll get better Image Quality than this ...... thing !!!!! "

Well, I haven't noticed an onslaught of new, just-registered people praising the 1020. Actually, we "oldtimers" (also, many of us 808 users) even stated we won't upgrade to the 1020 because of the deficiencies in the IQ. I stated it too below. And I even stated the iPhone 5 has, for a 1/3" 8 Mpixel sensor, good IQ.

This can't be called Nokia propaganda (on my / our part) either.

2 upvotes
AndyHWC
By AndyHWC (8 months ago)

CA is not a deal breaker. The awarding winning Fuji F30 which I still own has serious CA issue. Easy fix by pp.

Quick question, can I stop down a Lumia 1020?

2 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

"Quick question, can I stop down a Lumia 1020?"

Nope, it has fixed aperture, as all other smatphones.

1 upvote
Petrogel
By Petrogel (8 months ago)

-"I'd say the color smear is caused by the NR and in no way the lens blur in the left/rightmost 10% of the frame."-

I didn't know that NR smears color form ISO 100 (this must be a world wide novelty for Lumia 1020 ).
And if you "haven't noticed an onslaught of new, just-registered people praising the 1020" then check again !!!

I didn't say it is Nokia's propaganda but NOKIA'S FANS propaganda. As for the you (the 808 users) i think it would be good to upgrade to 1020, cause you were the ones saying that you 'd buy that phone not to curry a photo camera with you , yes but with that phone ,you'll need to curry one more phone (that can work properly) :-)

Lumia 1020 (in my humble opinion ) is good for a phone the lens is "let's say a poor choice" but compared with the competition the 41mp sensor is making much fuss about nothing special

0 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (8 months ago)

the natgeo3 photo has f2,2 ISO100 and shutter speed 1/170 so the NR theory is nice for the ignorant

0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (7 months ago)

"the natgeo3 photo has f2,2 ISO100 and shutter speed 1/170 so the NR theory is nice for the ignorant"

You mean the image at http://connect.dpreview.com/files/p/cms_posts/5588168824/natgeo3.jpg is suffering from lens softness and not NR-induced blurring??? You certainly don't know what you're speaking about...

Man, we're talking about a sensor with 1.12 micron photodiodes.... show me a SINGLE camera that isn't noisy at base ISO with such small photodiodes... you won't show me any.

1 upvote
Petrogel
By Petrogel (7 months ago)

NR at shutter speed 1/170, ISO 100 ??????
Mate !! you (the Nokian fans) were talking about the superiority of the 41mp and the oversampling giving low light better noise reduction and now you tell me about NR color smearing ? and that the photodiode is 1,12 μm big ?

In every photo taken from that phone the light distortion is OBVIOUS at least 2/3 off center
look at the comparison chart at the corners and compare it with samsung s4 ( which is the sharper of the category )

0 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (7 months ago)

"NR at shutter speed 1/170, ISO 100 ??????
Mate !! you (the Nokian fans) were talking about the superiority of the 41mp and the oversampling giving low light better noise reduction and now you tell me about NR color smearing ?"

Albeit I know it's pretty useless to argue with you, but...

1, I'm speaking of (and have linked to) the full-res 34 Mpixel image, not the downsampled one. Downsampled ones are better, as has the DPReview folks also pointed out here in the comment section.

2, again, show me ANY 1.12 um sensor that isn't nosy at even base ISO.

1 upvote
Petrogel
By Petrogel (7 months ago)

If it's useless why you do ?

1. The image quality does not respond to what you (not personally but the Nokia people ) praise that is.

2. The lens does not support the size of the sensor and it is OBVIOUS as soon as you get off the center of the image ( IT DOES NOT GET BETTER DOWN-SIZED, DOWN-SAMPLED OR WHATEVER YOU CALL IT ) .

3. If there were gonna be a problem with the size of the pixel (something that some of you shouting that it wouldn't) then you should have tried a different sensor
with bigger pixels

4. If you have that much problem with NR at Shutter Speed 1/170 and ISO 100, search again for a different sensor.

AND FINALLY if the question is: "If we need so many pixels on our phone ?"
The photos taken from this phone is the living prove
THAT WE DO NOT .-

0 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

@ AndyHWC

CA may not be a deal breaker but corner softness may be. The Fuji F30 was a very capable camera at it's time and sported one of the best signal to noise output from a point and shoot camera. The lens in that camera however was never highly regarded for quality compared with other compacts in the same range. That said, F30 had a optical zoom lens, which in compacts are usually not as good as fixed focal length lens.

The old Nokia 808 has a fixed focal length lens that has excellent corner detail, which is surprising for a small optic. The later Nokia 920, 925 and 928 also has a fixed focal length and all have good corner detail. For this reason, I cannot understand why the 1020 cannot continue this trend and also have good corner sharpness.

AndyHWC, stopping down the lens with an aperture may fix this, but the only Nokia I know that had an a drop in aperture ring was the very old N86. Maybe Nokia has to simply add this feature back into the 1020 to resolve this.

0 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

@Menneisyys

Is it possible that the color smearing may be due to the type of sensor technology. The use of BSI type sensors is known to have issues with colors bleeding in between pixels. Could this be the reason the Nokia 1020 applies an abundant amount of edge sharpening in order or mask this flaw?

1 upvote
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (7 months ago)

"Is it possible that the color smearing may be due to the type of sensor technology. The use of BSI type sensors is known to have issues with colors bleeding in between pixels. Could this be the reason the Nokia 1020 applies an abundant amount of edge sharpening in order or mask this flaw?"

Either way - it's not the lens' being soft towards the center (outside the outermost 10% region on the left/right), unlike what Petrogel has stated.

1 upvote
Petrogel
By Petrogel (7 months ago)

Wear your glasses and look again !!!!!

0 upvotes
Petrogel
By Petrogel (7 months ago)

When you said stated, you meant ..... United Stated ?

0 upvotes
Jon Holstein
By Jon Holstein (7 months ago)

@panoviews
That android comments sounds very fanboyitic.
I guess you phrased it wrong.
Cause if android tomorrow drops all the advantages you find on that platform... or if WP suddenly gains it all, why then would android be the decider.

0 upvotes
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (7 months ago)

PEOPLE, PLEASE, DON'T FEED THE TROLL!
Menneisyys, you have good points there, but the response is so irritating that I really, really wish for a Troll Filter for dpreview

0 upvotes
siberstorm27
By siberstorm27 (8 months ago)

For less than half the price, you can get yourself a Lumia 920, which isn't that far behind in image quality, has the same OIS and night performance, has far better camera app speed, and won't have an unsightly camera hump. The fact that each individual pixel of the 41MP sensor isn't any bigger than your typical 13MP cell phone camera means you can't expect a drastic difference ebetween it and the other cell phone cameras out there. Resampling from a large pool of pixel data has its limitations, especially when so much of it is nothing but noise, and digital zoom is still digital zoom. It's a mild benefit that starts getting noisy and ugly halfway in. There will be more than a couple of new camera focused phones coming out in Sept, to rival or beat the Lumia 1020, while not having to be bogged down by Windows Phone or Nokia's archaic hardware.

2 upvotes
YiannisPP
By YiannisPP (8 months ago)

" Bogged down by Windows Phone or Nokia's archaic hardware." What are you talking about? WP8 is a sleek and fast OS and is not bogging anyone down. As for "archaic hardware", I guess you're referring to the fact that it doesn't have a 4 or 8 core processor and a terabyte of RAM? Phones are not meant to simulate the expansion of the universe, nor the decay of the nuclear arsenal. Nokia 's hardware is as solid as they come and as fast as they need to be. In fact as an object that you carry with you (which is what is is), they are a hell of a lot more sturdy than the iPhones and the Samsungs. I have the Nokia 820 (WP8) for more than half a year now and it's a sleek machine that has never let me down. Moreover I've dropped it countless times and it barely acquired a scratch. Try dropping an S4 or iPhone on a hard surface. I wish someone was monitoring posts ilke yours which are effectively grossly misleading unsuspecting buyers...

6 upvotes
pavi1
By pavi1 (8 months ago)

Sorry but it is a great camera in a really bad smart phone

3 upvotes
YiannisPP
By YiannisPP (8 months ago)

Sure thing dude, and the sun will set on the east tomorrow too. If you say so:)

2 upvotes
utg001
By utg001 (8 months ago)

Windows Phone does not limit the camera, you have gone from an android/ios fan to a Windows hater have you noticed?

0 upvotes
Jon Holstein
By Jon Holstein (7 months ago)

siberstorm27
Which one is the best in low light without using flash of 920 and 1020 has probably not been properly tested. The 920 is heavier than 1020. And they have different OIS systems.
I bet the 1020 takes better low light images.

No, the digital zoom here is better than what you think of, when you think of digital zoom. It's mosly just a crop of the sensor, meaning that if you zoom in on the full resolution image you have almost the exact same quality.
So it's not crop-stretch, its simply crop.
With less pixels you could not do that crop, cause the details would not have been captured.

Compared to it's competitors, it apparently captures about as much details in a 5MP image as higher resolution images from others.
Why would you want higher resolution images that has no more details? Often that leads to larger file sizes, and that is just unecessary, or at least it's impratical when you look at the pictures as they have to be downsampled even more by your GPUchip,

0 upvotes
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (7 months ago)

"So it's not crop-stretch, its simply crop."
crap

0 upvotes
waxwaine
By waxwaine (8 months ago)

Maybe not 41mp, but image stailization on sensor for sure yesss!!!

0 upvotes
Yavor
By Yavor (8 months ago)

I think is pointless to show 5MP samples for 41MP camera. Or the logic is "you have 41MP, so you can take good 5MP photos".

1 upvote
Lars Rehm
By Lars Rehm (8 months ago)

Sorry to disagree. It's the entire point. There's not much point in taking 41 MP pictures on a mobile device but the Nokia takes those 41MP to produce low-noise 5MP images and allow for high-quality digital zoom. Seems pretty clever to me.

10 upvotes
nawknai
By nawknai (8 months ago)

No, the 41 MP sensor in this phone isn't so that you can take 41 MP photos. The entire point was that you can get better 5 MP photos from this camera than the 8 MP camera from an iPhone, a 13 MP photo from an S4, etc.

The ability to keep the 41 MP image from the camera is nice, but not really the point. It's not like the Nikon D800, where your high MP camera is meant for photographers who need 38 (?) MP.

4 upvotes
W5JCK
By W5JCK (8 months ago)

No, the whole point is really that Nokia is actually trying to pass a crappy 5 MP camera off as a 41 MP camera in order to boost sales. Nokia is a so so phone company living in the past, and they have never been known for cameras, and they've combined the two into a phone running one of the least popular phone OSes. Epic fail....

0 upvotes
Pall
By Pall (8 months ago)

...Nokia is a so so phone company living in the past, and they have never been known for cameras...very strange and inacurate comment. Nokia has been leader in mobile photography in more than ten years. N8, N95, 808PV to name a few.

4 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

"No, the whole point is really that Nokia is actually trying to pass a crappy 5 MP camera off as a 41 MP camera in order to boost sales. Nokia is a so so phone company living in the past, and they have never been known for cameras, and they've combined the two into a phone running one of the least popular phone OSes. Epic fail...."

You've certainly forgotten to add the /s sign to tell your readers all this was sarcasm and was in no way meant seriously.

3 upvotes
Yavor
By Yavor (7 months ago)

So they can create a review based on 1MP tests - I believe 41MP camera will take great 1MP photos. Sorry guys, but I just can't take that point. They can introduse 200MP and we will still care about 5MP? Not an accurate review for me.

0 upvotes
Jon Holstein
By Jon Holstein (7 months ago)

@W5JCK

Nothing of the sort, what they have is a 41MP multi aspect sensor.
It's quite small, and so are the optics. And it has a filter. So in the end you cant get pixel level 41MP images out of it.

And had it been a 5MP sensor producing those images, it would have been a very good one.
I can take pictures at full resolution, and default setting does that + and 5 megapixel one.

A Canon 5dMarkIII captures a resolution way lower than 22.3 megapixels, go check the review. Does it then not have a 22.3 megapixel sensor?
Is the lowest resolution in the settings the defining figure, well, most cameras today can capture very low resolution videos, most even less than 720 (1.3MP), are you saying that Canon 5d Mark III only has a crappy 1.3 Megapixel sensor?

0 upvotes
CortoPA
By CortoPA (8 months ago)

Seems to work well.

Thanks for the Review!

808 PureView users, Don't feel bad about this.
Time to move on....or maybe you can eventually get Linux for your phone....

3 upvotes
MistyFog
By MistyFog (8 months ago)

808 owners are fragile creatures. They need constant tender lovin' care, being told they are the best, their camera is the best. Those with a little more self-confidence will take these things in stride and move on with the world.

Comment edited 59 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (8 months ago)

808 users do want to move on and keep supporting Nokia, but not at the expense of downgrading image quality. Maybe pureview 4 in the future will be better.

eg it is like upgrading from a Canon 5d2 to a 5d3. You would expect the 5d mark 3 to have better IQ and improved performance over the 5d mark 2.

6 upvotes
YiannisPP
By YiannisPP (8 months ago)

I'm not an 808 owner, lol, just interested in these things. I just call it as I see it, the 808 beats the 1020 in the IQ department pretty easily. Please don't oversimplify the world, although I know it's tempting:)

6 upvotes
vlad0
By vlad0 (8 months ago)

It was obvious that the 808 has better IQ right from the first 1020 samples Nokia published :)

6 upvotes
Jon Holstein
By Jon Holstein (7 months ago)

The 1020 is a device with mass market appeal that is based on Nokias PureView concept.
It's not a true sucessor of the oddball, called 808.
THen it would have had to been almost as thick, or thicker (with OIS in mind, even despite thinner display and cover glass these days).

Even a lot of 808 users (not that there ever were a lot), would like to get the 1020.
SOme of them are not using the 808 as their main device, due to it's odditys.. some never did, some felt they had to move on.

The 1020, although not able to match the IQ of the 808 in all tests, is a much better package.

The 808 was almost more camera then phone... the 1020, is a much better compromise between the two.

And any 808 user that is dissapointed by the image quality, should perhaps realise that the 808 is behind many compact cameras, and if IQ is all they want, they are better off with a good compact and a cheap phone, you might have to use both your jeans pocket, but it will beat the 808 in IQ.

1 upvote
monlosez
By monlosez (8 months ago)

Windows Phone 8 has plenty of imaging software.

Nokia Creative Studio, Fotor, Photo Editor by Aviary, Thumba Photo Editor, CleverPhoto, Pictures Lab, Apict, Hipstamatic, Fhotoroom, Camera360, Phototastic, PhotoFunia, Fantasia Painter, Photosynth, Blink, Perfect365, Photogrid, etc...

Comment edited 59 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
monlosez
By monlosez (8 months ago)

Panorama, Cinemagraph, Smart Shoot, Smart Cam, Proshot, Timelapse Pro, Memorylage, Lomogram, MonsterCam, OneShot, SophieLens for Nokia, Imagefusion, HDR Photo Camera, Turbo Camera, Picture Perfect, Tuding, Easy Image Effects, Fogram, Photo Crop, CameraFX, Super Camera, Clever Camera, CamWow, Marmelo, Ciel, Photo Crop, PhotoDesign

Ok, that's long enough, unless you need more apps.

Comment edited 7 times, last edit 15 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

Also add that 90% of the direct camera apps are not recommended on iOS. I've been testing most camera apps on iOS for my ongoing tutorial series and, for each category of shooting, you only need to choose from two (but not more!) third-party apps. For example, with 3rd party pano apps, all you'll need is Autostitch Panorama and DMD Panorama. The rest of pano apps aren't that good as these two. (Microsoft's Photosynth comes close but its output is lower-resolution than the output of these two apps. Finally, Egos Ventures, Inc.'s Cycloramic is prone to abrupt exposure changes.)

Also, Nokia's Pro Camera app itself offers a lot more in a lot of than ANY iOS app simply because the iOS Camera API is very poor and offers no ways of directly setting the

- ISO (other than enabling high ISO on the iPhone 5)
- shutter speed (other than letting the iPhone extend it to 1s)
- dialed-in focus / exposure (other than setting the POI to focus / meter automatically - but it's still no manual focus)

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
fuego6
By fuego6 (8 months ago)

Agree... how many phone apps do we need to basically do the same thing? Take a photo, make it a bit better and then either send to social app, email or SMS... upload to cloud and delete from phone.. rinse / repeat.

4 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

"Agree... how many phone apps do we need to basically do the same thing? Take a photo, make it a bit better and then either send to social app, email or SMS... upload to cloud and delete from phone.. rinse / repeat."

Not many, particularly if the stock apps coming with the device do everything. Unlike on iOS, where not even third-party apps (not ANY of them, "thanks" to Apple's poor API support) give the user the same freedom as the stock apps on the Nokia WP devices.

All in all, the number of AppStore programs can be deceiving...

3 upvotes
Jon Holstein
By Jon Holstein (7 months ago)

Yeah complaining about photo apps, is probably the wrong app situation to complain about.

You are not going to do a lot of editing on a phone either... A tablet aimed for photographers, well, then it would matter... But neither iOS nor Android as far as I know have any good apps for working with raw, so even then this would probably not fallen short in the app selection.

0 upvotes
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (7 months ago)

For you, Jon, it's wrong, but to millions it is different.
AND it's not just the photo apps.

0 upvotes
whatsa
By whatsa (8 months ago)

I noticed in Pg 10
the 5mp comparison the light source was a dramatically
shallower angle of incidence to subject. probably half the
angle and therefore substantially less light.

If you look at the shadows cast from bottle across the paper money you will see what i mean.

But even with this the performance is impressive and much better

Thank for the review it was very informative and a
refreshingly professional review

0 upvotes
Lars Rehm
By Lars Rehm (8 months ago)

yes, the light source has changed which is why we put this note on the page: "These results are only provisional as the lighting level is the test scene has been adjusted since the other phones were shot. "

1 upvote
moris
By moris (8 months ago)

Non-removable battery??? These phones crash and you can reset only by removing battery. Sometimes you need an extra battery also. Very strange for Nokia doing this!!!
Your review conclusion misses this point.. Too bad..

Comment edited 14 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Impulses
By Impulses (8 months ago)

Umm, almost every single phone that has a sealed battery also has a key combination (power + volume down etc) that will reset it if it crashes (which should be quiterare, unless WP is vastly less stable than iOS/Android), USB battery packs are pretty cheap too and often more convenient than swapping the battery (no need to interrupt what you're doing, power down, reboot, etc).

Now if you had said that a sealed battery limits the phone's useful lifetime or argued that somehow your heavy usage case outstrips what any phone can handle off one charge, then you'd have an argument. The industry in general seems to be moving towards sealed batteries tho, might wanna vote with your dollar and buy Samsung I guess.

2 upvotes
tongki
By tongki (8 months ago)

he need extra battery in case he got to documented more than 2,000 shots with the LUMPIA

1 upvote
Lars Rehm
By Lars Rehm (8 months ago)

there are plenty of phones these days with sealed batteries and it doesn't appear to be much of a problem. My Nexus 4 is one of them, never had a problem with it.

1 upvote
Tan68
By Tan68 (8 months ago)

I do hope some phones continue to have removable batteries.

It seems most of the comments are along the line of 'why could you possibly need that'. At least Impulses recognises there may be times a swappable battery is nice.

This isn't the typical reason I swap batteries, but during a recent cancelled flight odyssey that had people hunting outlets and complaining about dead batteries (more than one person grumbling as we finally boarded), I just swapped and moved on. It is nice when I travel and etc. I don't want to sit on the floor with a couple other people hunched around an electrical outlet :^) Sometimes there aint an outlet to be had.

The USB option sounds nice and I was unaware of that. I think my little battery would be smaller overall. So, I would choose smaller and put up with the rebooting :^)

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Impulses
By Impulses (8 months ago)

Yeah for traveling I think I'd still prefer a removable battery, just because you endure lots of downtime so there's ample opportunity to swap out batteries... That's about the only time I ever used my spare batteries with my first two HTC smartphones.

The hassle of removing the case and rebooting was just too much for daily use tho (when I rarely need it, as each successive phone I've bough has been more power efficient). I've gotten along just fine with a USB battery pack ever since getting a phone with a sealed battery.

There's packs in the $25-35 range (search for Anker on Amazon) in all sorts of sizes and capacities, everything from a cigar shaped cylinder to a phone sized slab that's good for more than two full charges of your typical high end phone.

People that hold on to their phone for 3+ years or who absolutely can't get by most days on a single charge would definitely still benefit from removable batteries tho, but Samsung seems to be the only OEM still going that route.

0 upvotes
supeyugin1
By supeyugin1 (8 months ago)

This worth nothing, if not compared to S4 zoom.

0 upvotes
Alfred A
By Alfred A (8 months ago)

Yes, you are right. In terms of phone size, I don't think any phone can compete with S4 zoom.

Comment edited 28 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Petrogel
By Petrogel (7 months ago)

Neither in terms of image quality .

0 upvotes
Jon Holstein
By Jon Holstein (7 months ago)

@Petrogel
In tests, the 1020 has outpeformed the S4 zoom in overall image quality, but the zoom just can't compete.
So over all image quality makes the 1020 winner of the two. And if you badly need zoom, well the S4 mini plus a camera that outperforms the S4 Zoom, costs about as much as the S4 zoom, and is a pocketable... So I would go for the separate things, then you can spread the load over two pockets.
I would however instead go for the 1020 as a mobile, as it fits my mobile usage pattern (when I get a 8inch windows tablet)

0 upvotes
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (7 months ago)

S4 zoom has it's place.
Unfortunately it's really S4 mini zoom
I would LOVE it if the specs would be
S4 Active zoom = 1080+miracast, Qcore, IP68

0 upvotes
iae aa eia
By iae aa eia (8 months ago)

OK, it's a great phone, but I can't believe this is the successor of the 808 PureView.

7 upvotes
MistyFog
By MistyFog (8 months ago)

Nobody says it is. It's meant to be the successor of the 920/925 which are successors of the iPhone 5 and Galaxy S4.

2 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (8 months ago)

I disagree MistyFog, the 1020 is not the successor for the 925. It may be a continuation of the 920, but the 925 and the 1020 are aimed at different target markets. The 808 was a flagship camera phone, and hence the most logical successor would be the 1020 as it too is the flagship camera phone from Nokia

3 upvotes
MistyFog
By MistyFog (8 months ago)

Sorry, the 808 was not a flagship. There was barely a market for it. It was more a proof of concept phone to test the market. We're the guinea pigs. With knowledge of its strengths and weaknesses Nokia implemented the 1020. So yes, it has many improvements over the 808, such as OIS and sharper images than the 808.

2 upvotes
nawknai
By nawknai (8 months ago)

No, I agree that this is the successor to the 808 PureView.

How could the 920/925 possibly be the "successors" to the iPhone 5 and S4? Different companies. Besides, the 920 came out at around the same time as the iPhone 5, while the 925 came out at around the same time as the S4 (and no, a few months here and there doesn't matter).

1 upvote
Tan68
By Tan68 (8 months ago)

Who's on first, here ?

0 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (8 months ago)

@MistyFog Sadly by the time Nokia was able to manufacture and deploy the 808 to the mass market, it's time had past, and although the camera section was still ahead of it's competitors , the operating system of choice was obsolete. When first released the 808 was still sold at a high price, compared to other Nokia handsets at that time, so would have been pretty close to being a flagship phone. Flagship phones never necessarily sell the most in the market, due to their much higher price.

Also the way you describe the improvements of the 1020 over the 808, does sounds like you are indeed describing the "successor" of the 808 Pureview.

1 upvote
MistyFog
By MistyFog (7 months ago)

@bigley:

2 things:

1. It is up to Nokia to decide whether the 1020 should be a successor for the 808, and what direction to take for its new phones. Phones are inherently different from pure cameras which are not so much constrained by space/weight. Part of the engineering challenge involves the tradeoff between quality and weight and this is where Nokia's strength had been. To evaluate the 1020's achievement over 808 solely on IQ alone is missing the point. You will recognize that Nokia has successfully shaved off several mm from the camera module which by itself is a big achievement even if without OIS.

2. It is not clear if the 808 is actually better IQ-wise than the 1020 overall. For low-light shots, the 1020 is actually wayyy ahead of the 808. I could handhold the Lumia 920 at 1 second exposure time, but the maximum I can ever handhold the 808 is only 1/7 seconds. This makes a world of difference. And please don't mention tripod. Cameraphone on a tripod looks silly.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

@ MistyFog

Yes that is one of the pros for the 1020. It is much thinner than the 808. I still think the 1020 is meant to be the successor to the 808, as it is the second generation Nokia handset to sport the pureview lossless zoom. Although there are benefits from the new 1020 design, being thinner and having OIS, the overall image quality is less than the 808 due to soft corners and the pureview 5mp modes needs refinement.

From what I have seen from sample comparisons between the 808 and the 1020, the 808 has better IQ in daylight and low ISO, and the 1020 takes the IQ lead past ISO800. High ISO 1020 samples I have seen is really quite remarkable, and has excellent detail with high noise, but the detail is there.

All these sample comparisons have obviously not been done in a studio, and for this reason, we were all waiting to see it done properly in dpreview connect.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
MistyFog
By MistyFog (7 months ago)

Unfortunately, a studio comparison by dpreview will not do proper justice to the 1020's OIS. Especially if both cameras are set on tripod, and ISO/shutter speed are equalized. A more scientific comparison will also incorporate motion shake as an additional parameter, but we all know that's impractical.

Perhaps this will be mitigated somewhat by using auto-mode for comparison. From my experience in lowlight scenes, the 808 may go for shutter speed 1/8s with ISO 800, while the 920 will go for shutter speed of 1/4s with ISO 400 to get the same exposure.

Assuming the 1020 behaves the same way as the 920, and compensating for larger aperture and BSI illumination, perhaps the 1020 can capture the same exposure with ISO at say 320. So we are really comparing the 1020 with ISO 320, versus 808 with ISO 800.

1 upvote
MistyFog
By MistyFog (7 months ago)

In fact, from my experience, the OIS helps to compensate by more than 1 stop (maybe 2-3 stops). The 808 on auto mode tends to select a slower shutter speed compared to the 920 (i.e. greater tendency of getting motion blur).

So, adjusting for this, the 1020 would be capturing the same scene with ISO 100 versus the 808 using ISO 800.

Of course this is all subjective, but based on my own experience the difference is quite dramatic. I take lots of handheld lowlight pictures with my 808 and 920, and from my experience the 920's image is quite comparable to the 808 thanks to the much lower ISO. I'm sure the 1020 will be far better.

1 upvote
MistyFog
By MistyFog (7 months ago)

Somehow I feel that the benefit of OIS has been downplayed and understated.

For me, I take indoor/lowlight shots at least 50% of the time. If I can capture lowlight shots at ISO100 rather than ISO800, to me this improvement VASTLY outweighs the slightly worse IQ in daylight shots.

In fact, I expected Nokia to put a 20MP (N8-like sensor) with OIS, and would have been happy enough with that. So this 41MP sensor (albeit slightly smaller) had exceeded my expectations in that sense.

2 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

I believe it is possible for DP review to do multiple tests for the studio shot comparison, both a static tripod shot and one where the camera or phone is setup on a pendulum tripod that moves at a set rate. It seems logical as more and more digital cameras are coming out with Ois or sensor shift, and it would be nice to see which performs better than others.

In an ideal world, yes the 1020 will capture images at a lower ISO than the 808 thanks to OIS, but from the sample images we are seeing, and ones from national geographic, the IQ of the 1020 at ISO 100 is not so good, and I have noticed that ISO100 to 400 shots all seem to have alot of noise. At higher ISO, there is still noise, but there not a substantial increase and to me the 1020 seems to shine and exceed past ISO 800.

Based on that, if the 1020 had no OIS, it still would be better than the 808!

Basically we need to carry 2 phones min, daylight landscape, portrait 808, and super low light shot with 1020.

1 upvote
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

Do you find this strange MistyFog that the 1020 has a better performing High ISO than low ISO.

In an ideal world the 808 low ISO iq combined with 1020 OIS would have made a formidable combo, This is not the case, so even though the 1020 may capture lower ISO for the same shot as the 808, the Iq wil be marred with digital noise

1 upvote
MistyFog
By MistyFog (7 months ago)

@jalakarhu confirmed that adaptive oversampling for 1020 works by favouring sharpening in low ISO, versus noise reduction for high ISO. This explains your observation. So *if* the 1020 chooses noise reduction, it can actually do a good job like the 808. Just that the current algorithm chooses sharpening in low ISO.

I think adaptive oversampling is a good idea. With good light, noise is less of a problem especially at low ISO. The 808's pics are known to be quite soft, especially when zoomed in. For the mass market, soft images can be a major perception problem, i.e. people might conclude that the camera is inferior, or their lens are defective, etc. A sharp image tends to have that "wow" factor.

OTOH, it will be great if the adaptive oversampling algorithm can be overridden to select either sharpening or NR. This would be good for low light long exposure shots. The default is sharpening (due to low ISO), but we can choose noise reduction for a cleaner image.

1 upvote
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (7 months ago)

wow factor seems to be more than just sharpening , it is also contrast, color and saturation. I guess if Nokia wanted the "wow" factor for the 1020, they have got it this time, but obviously different people want different output, so I cannot see why Nokia will not give a multi output solution, a consumer output, and a "pro" output.

Images captured from my 808 very sharp, yet not over sharp. This is so even at full resolution, but... depending on scene, in lower light, or closeup, one has to be very careful with the 808, as the depth of field may be quite narrow, and locking precision focus may not occur. In these cases, the image captured may appear to have a soft look. For this reason, after a capture, if I have time, I immediately review and zoom in 100% to check focus.

The 1020 having a smaller sensor has an advantage with a smaller sensor, as not only will the focus be more accurate (wdie depth), it can also lock autofocus faster.

1 upvote
Jon Holstein
By Jon Holstein (7 months ago)

I dont think it's as easy as to put two modes, or sliders in there.
You actually have to do a lot of work to get the best result at a given setting.
Sure, a Pro mode, would mean only two modes to work with, but then Nokia would have to think if it's really worth it. And with a pro mode, would we not want RAW option? Sure nokia should be able to build a raw converter based on the same path they have gone inside the phone. On the other hand, it probably does more work than we would like to think, so RAW images not converted would not be a nice thing.

But I agree, DP should build a handshake rig. Using a motor, they could have certain amounts of shake, not exactly the same for every pic, but at quite comparable levels.
And that is very important for mobiles, as if you are the one who brings a pod, you probably could have brought a dedicated camera.

1 upvote
Jon Holstein
By Jon Holstein (7 months ago)

I doubt the 1020 is really meant as a successor of the 920/925, maybe they made it sound like that, to try to capture the audience looking for the new Nokia that was to compete with S4 and 5s.
Especially now that it sounds like microsoft is going to buy parts of Nokia, and therefor might put other releases on hold.

But the sucessor of the 920 should be called 930. The 925/928 was mid cycle updates (not a year had passed).

The 808 as someone said was probably a proof of concept. They had been working on it for so long and probably had a pretty developed test-version for every new hardware platform. And when Nokia was moving to WP, they didn't have a lot of developed phones to put out there, so they went ahead with the 808.
Remember the N900, was also a proof of concept, and Nokia kept saying but writers kept calling it flagship.

1020, is the kind of phone 808 should have been. It cant meassure up on all points, but it's a good package, the 808 wasnt.

1 upvote
Alfred A
By Alfred A (8 months ago)

I can't understand why 808 owners keep bashing this phone. If you think this is not the phone upgrade from your 808, then you do not need to upgrade it. As simple as that.

It makes me think that some 808 users simply want to prove that their phone is the best in terms of camera. So when Nokia come out new phone , they will keep bashing it. This already happened when Nokia announced 1020.

IMHO, both 808 and 1020 have pros & cons, you just need to find out which phone more suitable for you. But I doubt anyone will buy a Symbian phone now.

Peace ~

Comment edited 30 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
vlad0
By vlad0 (8 months ago)

No one is bashing it... its better than anything else but the 808.. that's all.

3 upvotes
YiannisPP
By YiannisPP (8 months ago)

Indeed no one is bashing it, but these people want to believe we do for some reason:)

4 upvotes
MistyFog
By MistyFog (8 months ago)

The thing is... every award/praise that the 1020 gets, everyone is cheering its achievements, including those iPhone/Android users (even if grudgingly).

And then there are a handful of 808 owners who will protest and carry placards saying "808 is better" and loudly booing the 1020. They are a tiny tiny minority but they are the ones creating the loudest noise. And they are intentionally there to rain on the 1020's parade. You wonder their motive.

2 upvotes
lecoupdejarnac
By lecoupdejarnac (8 months ago)

I can't speak for all 808 owners, but personally I'm disappointed that there isn't a clear upgrade path right now.

To switch to the 1020 from the 808 has a few serious tradeoffs:

1. loss of image quality (the most important factor for people buying these kind of phones)
2. lack of microSD card slot; this is absolutely baffling to not include in a camera phone
3. loss of configurable bracketing mode, sharpness, saturation, contrast controls
4. no more HDMI port
5. no more 8MP output resolution option; I use this one the most

Sure there are a few gains too, but for me at least, they don't outweigh the losses.

I do hope that the 1020 is a huge success, and that people will buy it. That would mean better camera phones down the line.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
bigley Ling
By bigley Ling (8 months ago)

It is not about "bashing" this new handset. It is a discussion, and it is a discussion specifically about the camera module section of the 1020. I am sure more 808 users are quite happy to upgrade to a 1020 if it at least could match or better the quality of images coming from the 808. Is it not logical to want to move up to a better phone that will capture similar or better images? This is especially so with the 1020, since the camera portion seems to dominate the handset.

No one is stopping buyers from getting a 1020. The idea of a review is to determine the in's and out's of a device, be it positive or negative, and in the "connect" site focusing on the camera section and to let the reader decide for him/her self.

2 upvotes
Menneisyys
By Menneisyys (8 months ago)

lecoupdejarnac, as a 808 (in addition to the iPhone 5 and some other gadgets) owner, I fully agree. And this is why I'll also skip the 1020. Hope the next Nokia camera flagship will be at least as good as the 808 with all the features already offered by the Snapdragon 800 chipset - 1080p60, 4K video recording etc.

BTW, the audio quality should also be added to your list, in which the 1020 also lags behind the 808.

2 upvotes
MistyFog
By MistyFog (7 months ago)

That would be true for folks like lecoup, bigley and messrs werner, who have been reasonable and objective. I understand your point of view. But, there are others who are just looking at an excuse to tarnish the 1020. I mean, just looking at the comment section alone, an unsuspecting reader gets the impression that the 1020 has a poor camera, which is not the case. And these comparisons to the 808 are way disproportionate for owners of a device that probably has 0.01% of market share. So despite your good intentions it is being taken advantage of by others with less noble intentions.

2 upvotes
Stoli89
By Stoli89 (7 months ago)

I don't think the 1020 was designed to be an upgrade to the 808. Frankly, the market is not big enough. No, the 1020 was designed to have greater market appeal, and therefore it had to make certain concessions that were not made for the 808. In particular, the image sensor size, which has resulted in significantly smaller physical pixels. The other missing attributes (no SD expansion, no HDMI and no 8MP) are not as critical for the mass market, else Nokia would've included them.

Personally, if it weren't for the shrinking Symbian ecosystem, I'd probably go for a second hand 808. But if I were to invest over the next 2 years, knowing that Symbian support is on the verge of waning...I think the 1020 is a very compelling device.

Comment edited 18 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Jon Holstein
By Jon Holstein (7 months ago)

Yes, that is the simple Truth, the 1020 is not an upgrade to the 808, it's rather what the 808 should have been.
A better sized phone.
With better screen.
More appealing OS (touch version of Symbian never felt finnished).
Nice design.

The 8MP mode of the 808 is not as good as the 5MP mode of the 808 according to Nokia. So they probably removed it, so it would not be used by misstake.

HDMI out on phones, has not been a hit.
No microSD slot, I agree is a let down, especially since the phone as far as i know does not have USB OTG mass storage support, cause connecting a USB-drive would for me beat MicroSD slot any day.

The 808 lacked all mass market appeal, and therefor made no sense for the Nokia that were. They needed mass appeal products.

Sure, Nokia could have built a device that outperformed the 808 in every aspect, but who would get it? It would have to be thick and chunky, and with that thickness they could have almost included an optical zoom lens for a smaller sensor...

1 upvote
CyberAngel
By CyberAngel (7 months ago)

Let Nokia keep the 5MPx in default aspect ratio
but I would LOVE to see in 16:9 these
8Mpx UHD 3840x2160
(4Mpx monitors 2450x1440)
2Mpx FHD 1920x1080
1MPx Phone/Web/Social 1280x720
in both images and video

0 upvotes
Miike Dougherty
By Miike Dougherty (8 months ago)

What am I missing? The enlarged images taken with this phone on my computer look great.

5 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (8 months ago)

DId you accidentally disable your angry old man mode? It's the default setting, but sometimes it can get switched off by accident. Look for it in the user control panel

5 upvotes
Total comments: 355
12
About us
Sitemap
Connect